Legal advice..FRA Website

[Witton Park]

Legal advice and help with drafting a document for juniors.
Wed 23rd Apr, 2014

The FRA Committee have been building up a reference group of members with specific expertise and who can help and advise us from time to time. To date we have input in relation to insurance; safety, both mountain rescue and health and safety; juniors/coaching and from some race organisers.

1. Could you offer legal advice to the FRA Committee on draft documents etc?

2. We are putting together a leaflet for juniors and have text that would look very uninviting to any junior member. Could you offer help with an improved layout e.g. cartoons/photos? (Junior members putting themselves forward would be welcomed.)

Suitable payments will be made to those appointed, if required.

If you like to put yourself forward you are welcome to send me a brief resume to [email protected] or phone me on 07956344174

Nick Harris, Secretary

[Witton Park]

I'm just a little flummoxed by this.

Could we have a bit of flesh put on this?

[L.F.F.]

Seems clear enough. They just want a legal expert who's also good at drawing cartoons.

[alwaysinjured]

FRA still does not get it.

A competent person has to lead the safety process, as a safety officer and be given authority to do it, who cannot therefore be outvoted by a lay majority or executive, as it is in corporate safety.. Not give advice to people who do not understand, then be roundly ignored, and told to sign up to the corporate spin. There is a heap of stuff that needs to be done, on a continuous basis not just documents once in a while.

Anyway, I hope they state who their safety advice is, until they do I will assume it is just a spin.

I am happy to have a discussion with such a person. And that would be the sensible thing, since it was me that found most of the "howlers" in what was done previously, and knows what needs doing from here on in. I only hope he is better than the last one! It would be a change to speak to someone still in FRA who knows what the words mean, and the issues are.

[Witton Park]

I'd like to see them publish the people that are giving them this advise and what category of expertise they fall in to.

[luxinterior]

FRA still does not get it.

A competent person has to lead the safety process, as a safety officer and be given authority to do it, who cannot therefore be outvoted by a lay majority or executive, as it is in corporate safety.. Not give advice to people who do not understand, then be roundly ignored, and told to sign up to the corporate spin. There is a heap of stuff that needs to be done, on a continuous basis not just documents once in a while.

Anyway, I hope they state who their safety advice is, until they do I will assume it is just a spin.

I am happy to have a discussion with such a person. And that would be the sensible thing, since it was me that found most of the "howlers" in what was done previously, and knows what needs doing from here on in. I only hope he is better than the last one! It would be a change to speak to someone still in FRA who knows what the words mean, and the issues are.

Really what is the point of this thread except to try and stir up more of the same anti FRA nonsense that is going on

And Always you come across as very arrogant when you say "I am happy to have a discussion with such a person. And that would be the sensible thing, since it was me that found most of the "howlers" in what was done previously, and knows what needs doing from here on in. "

Why would they need to speak to you?????

[alwaysinjured]

Really what is the point of this thread except to try and stir up more of the same anti FRA nonsense that is going on

And Always you come across as very arrogant when you say "I am happy to have a discussion with such a person. And that would be the sensible thing, since it was me that found most of the "howlers" in what was done previously, and knows what needs doing from here on in. "

Why would they need to speak to you?????

I am not anti FRA at all- I am pro FRA which is why I care. Just like being anti David Cameron (if I am - an example - not a statement) does not make me anti UK. It means I think the government needs to be changed or strengthened because of having made a cods of it all.

It was me that found a lot of the problems as a minor part of AW organisation - the rules as they were made it impossible for AW (and every other RO) and Wynn as one of the most directly affected by the sailbeck tragedy had to protest. That is why we got involved. I get the worrying impression that to begin with at least she was one of the few RO actually reading the documents at all, but only when alerted. It is a problem she was not asked before they voted them in and so we found the problems by accident.

My objective is getting FRA to act properly on safety - my comment on safety officer spot on.

Unlike the present executive, It is not about me at all. I would be happy for any other competent person to do the job, indeed I would prefer it - I just want someone to do the job that needs doing properly as understood by a qualified person, so that people like Wynn are given a proper framework.

So far me and Andy W are the only safety qualified and experienced people who have been involved in this at all. A few others operating in hazardous occupations have commented that they too agree with the approach we have stated.

Those tasked in FRA were not even using the words correctly, let alone putting them together properly. But they have consistently refused to listen - the wrong people are doing the job.(still) - and to them it is ALL about them - which is the problem. The demand to have authority and stay in charge, come what may, rather than having seen it is not as easy as they thought , then to delegate the doing of documents and safety, to someone qualified and expereinced to do it, saving themselves a whole lot of grief and work in the process.

Because I have been looking at this a very long time, (and as one of the only qualified and suitably expereinced people to comment )I have a lot I could pass on to the current incumbent unfortunate enough to have picked up the mantle -. They behaved despicably with Andy W, so I hope they treat this one a little better.

[Witton Park]

I'm not anti FRA either - perhaps anti a few FRA Committee initiatives, but certainly not anti FRA.

Competitor, Member, RO, Champs RO and coach of quite a few juniors passed and present.

I am genuinely interested in what this is about. Particularly the junior initiatives and who are the people guiding them.
England Athletics publish their similarly utilised experts here.
I think it would be useful for the FRA to publish who they are using to advise them from outside of the committee - it helps add weight and credibility to whatever it is that they do as a result.

[Lecky]

I suspect that Richard started this thread just to publicise something important that is being done by the FRA. It is a shame that it has been hijacked to trot out the same complaints that have been made repeatedly (ad nauseam) on other threads.

My objective is getting FRA to act properly on safety - my comment on safety officer spot on.

It seems to me that you want the FRA to act the way you want them to act.

You have an option there: get nominated for the committee and get elected, all the executive posts are elected. Oh, but you are not a committee person, I remember.

You could also finish the documents you have been working on and publish them here. If they are as good as you say they would be, then I would happily endorse them, and I suspect others might too. If they aren't any good, then we can tell you.

[Witton Park]

I suspect that Richard started this thread just to publicise something important that is being done by the FRA.

I don't know if it's something important or not. That's part of the point Lecky. So you could say I'm fishing perhaps - interested party, would like to know more.

We've both been around the junior scene for a few years now and I'm just interested in what's cooking, particularly in view of a few recent exchanges behind the scenes on junior issues.