If you look at the state of the Labour Party there's plenty of them on the Remain sideOriginally Posted by Stolly
If you look at the state of the Labour Party there's plenty of them on the Remain side
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
I find it funny with people complaining about the lack of democarcy in the EU when you see the joke the UK calls democarcy. Here is the full breakdown for the 2015 election. The new centreists grouping will end up like the Lib Dems.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...ach-party.html
Party......................Votes per seat
DUP........................23,032
SNP........................25,972
SDLP.......................33,269
Conservatives.......34,244
Labour...................40,290
Sinn Fein................44,058
UUP........................57,467
Plaid Cymru.........60,564
Lib Dem................301,986
Green....................1,157,613
Ukip.......................3,881,129
My own country has its own problems with the Single Transferable Vote, While the parliment is very representative of the wishes of the people, there are a lot of Independents who care more about their little corner than the country as a whole.
Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 26-02-2019 at 09:05 AM.
Our system works well. It may keep out the fringe parties like Greens and UKIP from the UK Parliament, but it keeps out the National Front, BNP, Socialist Workers Party, Communist Party.....
There has been a problem particularly on the left akin to the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's front. The left had splintered down so much in to factions outside of Labour in the 90s there were around 10 parties all at the extreme end.
I think there is room for 3 main UK wide parties - any more and they are short-term issue specific parties.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
You don't think so, despite the numerous examples that show he clearly is? I gave some examples in point 30 on this thread. If you can read that and tell me that he doesn't hate Jews then I'm staggered. Many Labour MP's clearly think he does. In fact Margaret Hodge called him racist to his face. The reason he doesn't deal with the Labour internet trolls is because he agrees with them. As Ian Austin, who resigned from the Labour Party said "The hard truth is that the party is tougher on the people complaining about anti-Semitism than it is on the anti-Semites."
You like to band the term racist about with regards to Leave Supporters so I'm with Mr Brightside I'd be interested to know your definition of it.
The "out" margin of victory was 1,269,501. It is rediculous to say all 17.4m leave are racists, I have my own issues with the EU, despite my own country having done very well out of the EU and for the last four years has been a net contributor to the budget, which is how it should be.
The question is; was free movement of EU citizens and millions of Muslims from Turkey and Libya FLOODING into the country the absolute number one priority of 600,000 voters.
Personally I think that the free movement should have been brought in gradually as the relative strength of the EU economies starts to balance out. But, in my opinion, the advantages massivly outweight the disadvantages.
You should ask yourself who and why these politicians seemed to make sure it's a disaster.
Perhaps in the hope that enough will swing the other way and fall in to line?
Just look at what we have had.
From the Tories under May.
No Single Market, No Customs Union, No Delay, No Deal is better than a bad deal
and that had drifted to a current
Elements of Single Market, A backstop which replicates the Customs Union with no get out clause, A Delay, No Deal being ruled out.
From Labour under Corbyn.
No Single Market, No Customs Union (both in manifesto, honouring the result of the referendum
and that has drifted since the General Election to
a 2nd referendum where they will campaign for Remain.
This has been coming. It was inevitable and it will lead to a huge stand-off and possible a seismic shakeup in UK politics.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
plus centerists - Lib Dems.
I guess the supporters of these parties appreciate your opinion that they don't deserve a voice.
Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 26-02-2019 at 09:23 AM.
The Tories are about 70% Remain in Westminster, but about 70% Leave in the membership and voters. That imbalance will have to be rebalanced.
They have avoided the membership having a say on the leader since 2005, largely due to the political shenanigans of the MPs.
The Labour Party are about 95% Remain in Westminster, but about 40% Leave in the membership and voters, but that 40% is hugely swung by the big cities, especially London.
But they have many pockets that are like the Tories with 70% members and voters for Leave. That is demonstrated that most Labour constituencies voted Leave - around 160 out of their 262.
The Thread is "New political party?"
Other than backward references to UKIP no one has mentioned the Brexit Party yet.
I think it's notable as well that whilst we are seeing the indi breakaway (not yet a party) reflected in the polls, we haven't yet seen the Brexit Party reflected in the polls.
It almost seems to me like another establishment stitch up.
I can quite imagine given the electorates low regard for politicians that the new Brexit Party could currently command 20-30% in the polls if it was offered as an option.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
That’s easy. A racist is somebody who is small minded, selfish and hates others just because they have a different skin colour/culture/language/religion and, in hating those people, feels somehow superior and more deserving in every way to those people
Which would decimate otherwise Tory voters 😊
More positively I really hope the hard left and hard right have now reached their high water mark and both begin to wither on the branch. As with Donald Trump, promising populist dreams eventually hits a hard wall of reality. Real politics requires reality grounded people to work together and compromise not mini dictators promising fools dreams.
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