Brexit

[Llani Boy]

[QUOTE=Muddy Retriever;647079. Loud mouthed lefty half-wit Owen Jones

I would like to point out that the above named prat is not Welsh. (and I don't mean MR)

[noel]

I notice all the statements about the Eurozone growth ignore the financial crash. I suggest this might have had something to do with the downturns over the last 11 years. I'm not an economist, but maybe we should be comparing the EU to other global economies during this same period.

[Oracle]

That misses the essential point.

The problem is not just absolute performance, but increasing divergence within the eurozone itself which is forced by the currency union.
That is what will rip it apart. Compare the divergence of italy and the fourth reich as a whole. Italy is not blameless, but italy , greece and the rest are prevented from any hope of recovery as said Soros today. As I pointed out earlier, when Soros and Varoufakis both agree there is the same problem and solution is impossible,then it has to be bad!

Apart from that.A commitee 26 countries cannot agree on anything except the lowest common denomnator It is why all deals are suboptimal and take seven years, and in the case of migration no deal was reached. The only deal EU will do is not a deal because it is unnaceptable to us. It doesnt take seven years , it can be done in months. they take that long because of the impossibilty of EU state agreement.

Imagine a camel if it had been designed by a commitee of 27, worse still when hijacked by officials who care only about preserving ideology not whether the camel is useful. The camel would stand no chance of walking! Eu can not succeed because it has become too unwieldy.

Now imagine a one to one deal between two countries, focussed just on their interests. No contest in the result, far better for both parties. Eurozone is screwed. And with it the EU. It cannot make a decision, even to save its life.

I notice all the statements about the Eurozone growth ignore the financial crash. I suggest this might have had something to do with the downturns over the last 11 years. I'm not an economist, but maybe we should be comparing the EU to other global economies during this same period.

[Muddy Retriever]

I notice all the statements about the Eurozone growth ignore the financial crash. I suggest this might have had something to do with the downturns over the last 11 years. I'm not an economist, but maybe we should be comparing the EU to other global economies during this same period.

According to this article I linked to last week:

In 2000, a year after the euro was introduced, the US economy was only 13% larger than the eurozone; by 2016 it was 26% larger

https://www.theguardian.com/business...oseph-stiglitz

So that includes the years of financial crash for both the USA and the eurozone.

[Witton Park]

I notice all the statements about the Eurozone growth ignore the financial crash. I suggest this might have had something to do with the downturns over the last 11 years. I'm not an economist, but maybe we should be comparing the EU to other global economies during this same period.

my previous analysis of the figures you linked to was over 40 odd years so smoothing out a number of growth periods and downturns.
When comparing to USA or any other developed economy I think the 2008 crash hit everyone, but some have come out of it stronger than others.

[noel]

my previous analysis of the figures you linked to was over 40 odd years so smoothing out a number of growth periods and downturns.
When comparing to USA or any other developed economy I think the 2008 crash hit everyone, but some have come out of it stronger than others.

I seem to remember someone making the point that if you break the years down into blocks the most recent 11 years shows the EU is slowing.

[Stolly]

I can’t help but laugh (ironically) at all the expert opinions coming from some of the pro-Brexit zealots on here as to why economically leaving the EU is best. Virtually every economist in the U.K., most major businesses, the CBI, the Bank of England and the IMF disagree with them though. But hey what do they know eh?

This from the IMF - UK’s economic outlook in six charts https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles...-in-six-charts - sums things up pretty accurately and pretty expertly I think but Witton maybe you have six charts of your own, gleaned from some ultra right wing think tank conspiracy theory web page, that knows better?

[DrPatrickBarry]

Rubbish there was not a chart showing the value of a blue passport.

[Witton Park]

I seem to remember someone making the point that if you break the years down into blocks the most recent 11 years shows the EU is slowing.

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but if it is it isn't what I've said.

I have said that GDP Growth in the Eurozone since Maastricht as been below the trend for modern developed economies.

So that's circa 25 years.

If it was so good, no one has copied it, independent nations have outperformed it. How is that so?

It's a nice idea, put poorly in to practise.

[noel]

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but if it is it isn't what I've said.

I have said that GDP Growth in the Eurozone since Maastricht as been below the trend for modern developed economies.

So that's circa 25 years.

If it was so good, no one has copied it, independent nations have outperformed it. How is that so?

It's a nice idea, put poorly in to practise.

It was aimed at you, but I see what you're saying now.

It's interesting how different people see different things in data.
https://tradingeconomics.com/europea...gdp-per-capita
If you set it to "max" it shows the EU GDP per capita since the early 60s. To me it shows a steady unchanging rate of growth up to about 2007 then a sharp decline followed by a return to a similar rate of growth. Where's the slowing you see post-Maastricht?