Brexit

[Llani Boy]

Anyway I’m now going for a run in the hills 😡

Good idea Stolly.It might clear your mind which is obviously muddled

[Wheeze]

That's the wonder of our sport!
Stolly, you,ve just precised the whole of project fear. Do you really think this would all come to pass?

[Witton Park]

Why a general election? Corbyns amendments got voted down just as heavily. Eu will not negotiate. I agree there will be a leadership election.

I am guessing in a confidence vote neither DUP nor "change group" will vote to depose the government for completely different reasons.

A General Election because with May, or with a new PM, the balance in the Commons is not allowing progress.

8 options on Thursday, all voted down and there were quite a few who didn't take part such as cabinet. So they aren't going to pass.

A new balance in the Commons might be the only way to make progress.

[Witton Park]

That’s really interesting as I’d put Johnson down as a guaranteed vote loser. A new Farage party could also jump into the mix and plunder votes from the tories (and labour) - they wouldn’t neccessarily win any seats but just upset the vote balance

Johnson would be a vote winner for Tories. He would also attract Leftish leavers around a Clean Brexit plan.

Remainers will split their vote unless they decide to stand tactically. I can't see that.

If the Tories had a genuine Leave leader and manifesto, I suspect that Farage's lot will be selective about which seats they contest if any.
Remember they were set up to contest the EU elections if we have them.

[Stolly]

To be fair Witton ‘Firage’s lot’ seem to have infiltrated the conservatives from the inside now and are fast ukipising them. The remain third of the conservatives will jump ship in droves. As for Johnson, viewed through Tory rose tinted glasses you may be right but, believe me, everybody else wouldn’t trust him as far as they could throw him.

And as for wheeze’s bringing up of project fear, well that’s no longer a hyperthetical thing; it’s already really happening and is there for all to see. A no deal Brexit will just shut the tomb door

(I’m really going for a run honest but the Coniston 14 is on today and they’ve shut the road on me for 20 minutes until they’ve run past)

[Witton Park]

You got inside info on the UKIPisation of the Tories?

This UKIP entryist issue is an odd one.
There's no doubt that after the referendum with the demise of UKIP as it lurched to the right, some went to the Tories, mostly ex Tories it has to be said coming back.

The Tories actually have had ex Kippers in the Cameron-Osborne team such as George Eustice, a special advisor to Cameron, then an MP and eventually a minister.

But the reality is the Tories are shedding members. Particularly since Chequers. They are down to an estimated 100,000 members now, down from 150,000 in 2014.

It isn't the Remainers leaving. It is the Leavers, off to no one, or the old SDP which has been growing in membership over the last 6 months.

If you take the case of Grieve in the headlines today. He's in a constituency that voted to Leave, with a local party that support leave and he has been an obstruction to the process, tabling amendments with opposition MPs against Govt bills and motions.

To complain of entryism is probably a red herring and missing the point. The majority of the members that selected him are disappointed in the way he has conducted himself and hence the vote of no confidence.

I do think there will be some musical chairs in the coming months.

Some MPs are clearly in the wrong party.

[Oracle]

You believe and echo the guardian, instead of why brexiteers actually voted for it. Your comment on business betrays lack of experience of actual trade and how little it actually matters, unless EU want to cut off their noses to spite their faces, But outside EU certainly makes world trade a great deal easier. The winning election. manifesto clearly said no deal better than bad deal. So no deal has the mandate.

No bugaboos?????

I can only guess you haven’t been paying any attention to anything then wheeze. Forgetting the massive impact on the nhs (staff and medicine especially), forgetting U.K. individuals now living and working in the EU losing their jobs, U.K. businesses operating in the EU having to completely restructure how they operate in future, overseas businesses located here due to our EU membership now relocating elsewhere with resulting job losses, EU nationals living here (some for many many years) becoming at best second class citizens, the massive number of international trade agreements (in and outside the EU) in place to U.K. businesses through our membership being lost to us and having to be renegotiated (from a relative to the EU small fry perspective) and the increased cost of imports from the EU..... (deep breath) what have the Romans ever done for us?

Most importantly though the leave campaign at the time of the referendum didn’t at any stage campaign no deal. They just concentrated on lying about the cost savings, lying about millions of potential Turkish immigrants and successfully confusing voters that the Syrian refugee crisis at the time was in some way going to lead to more Syrian immigrants... because of the EU. Oh and the small matter of lying about how easy peasy the deal will be negotiated. Yeah right...��

[Mossdog]

You believe and echo the guardian, instead of why brexiteers actually voted for it. Your comment on business betrays lack of experience of actual trade and how little it actually matters, unless EU want to cut off their noses to spite their faces, But outside EU certainly makes world trade a great deal easier. The winning election. manifesto clearly said no deal better than bad deal. So no deal has the mandate.

You're peddling the typical ERG and hard brexshit fib by conflating that which the manifesto (I assume you meant the Conservative manifesto) set out in 2017 with Vote Leave's claims during the referendum - in 2016, THE YEAR BEFORE. During the referendum it was all about leaving, with no clear vision of how that would actually happen, except that the EU needed us (apparently) more than we needed them and so a DEAL - would be simples. But, remember the hapless faces of Boris and Gove, when the were interviewed together on TV the day after the result. Clueless. Gove subsequently supported May's deal; which was designed to avoid a no-deal catastrophe. Boris slithered off to focus on his next bout of adultery having again broken another marriage solemn promise to his second wife having already broken his marriage promise to his first - serial lies come so naturally to this bloke and how much easier when its to the wider British public - whatever fits his bloated selfish sense of entitlement.

So, no-deal doesn't have a mandate unless your claiming that every person who voted Tory in 2017, must have agreed with no-deal, which is ludicrously simple-minded.

Even during the referendum, Vote Leave said precious little that was intelligible except resorting to blaming others (foreigners in the uk, the EU politicians, etc.)for all of their woes and making false promises to the ever-gullible and pertetually disgruntled, sector of the electorate, whose motivation for voting Leave were various and complex. The only touted positive made by Leave were false claims that leaving would be straightforward and we'd all be winners soaking up the largesse. Indeed, Vote Leave then subsequently and sneakily retracted much of what they promised just after he results came out!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7105546.html

What amuses me is how many Leavers, after disparaging experts prior to the referendum vote, suddenly become their own purveyors of expertise on what everyone else who voted Leave clearly understood and wanted. Strangely, the opinion seems to be that what they - the Leaver voters - wanted, always seems to accord exactly with whatever the particular Leave 'expert' believes him or herself You couldn't make it up - oh hang on, they did!

[Llani Boy]

You're peddling the typical ERG and hard brexshit fib by conflating that which the manifesto (I assume you meant the Conservative manifesto) set out in 2017 with Vote Leave's claims during the referendum - in 2016, THE YEAR BEFORE. During the referendum it was all about leaving, with no clear vision of how that would actually happen, except that the EU needed us (apparently) more than we needed them and so a DEAL - would be simples. But, remember the hapless faces of Boris and Gove, when the were interviewed together on TV the day after the result. Clueless. Gove subsequently supported May's deal; which was designed to avoid a no-deal catastrophe. Boris slithered off to focus on his next bout of adultery having again broken another marriage solemn promise to his second wife having already broken his marriage promise to his first - serial lies come so naturally to this bloke and how much easier when its to the wider British public - whatever fits his bloated selfish sense of entitlement.

So, no-deal doesn't have a mandate unless your claiming that every person who voted Tory in 2017, must have agreed with no-deal, which is ludicrously simple-minded.

Even during the referendum, Vote Leave said precious little that was intelligible except resorting to blaming others (foreigners in the uk, the EU politicians, etc.)for all of their woes and making false promises to the ever-gullible and pertetually disgruntled, sector of the electorate, whose motivation for voting Leave were various and complex. The only touted positive made by Leave were false claims that leaving would be straightforward and we'd all be winners soaking up the largesse. Indeed, Vote Leave then subsequently and sneakily retracted much of what they promised just after he results came out!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7105546.html

What amuses me is how many Leavers, after disparaging experts prior to the referendum vote, suddenly become their own purveyors of expertise on what everyone else who voted Leave clearly understood and wanted. Strangely, the opinion seems to be that what they - the Leaver voters - wanted, always seems to accord exactly with whatever the particular Leave 'expert' believes him or herself You couldn't make it up - oh hang on, they did!

Oh Mossdog, I bet it took you ages to compose that ramble!

Leave voters, people who have been married more than once. Don't hold back, I'm sure there are more sections of the community just waiting for your wrath. Lets have both barrels, we can take it.

[Mossdog]

You should study the real Boris. Not the memes or media you clearly read. I spent half an hour talking with him a couple of years ago and formed an opinion of the man. I demonstrated with one example the real Boris is a thinking man.

Nor can any accuse him of being two faced. Boris is unusual for a politician because he thinks what he says. And even more unusually he says what he thinks rather than sanitizes it for public consumption: What you see is what you get.
Indeed it is saying what he thinks that gets him into to trouble. And it doesnt change with expedience and weather as it does for the weasel Comrade Corbyn or the shifty Gove.

He proved his leadership credentials as London Mayor, before opponents considered him a threat and so decided to ridicule him, so that such as you would echo such memes.

So you know the real Boris? I think you need to really question your judgement. I understand how, with Boris condescending to speak to you, you might have found yourself lost in admiration and wonderment for him, but I'd rather rely on the opinion of someone who has worked closely with him for years. Amber Rudd summed him up succinctly as "the life and soul of the party, but not the man you want driving you home at the end of the evening"!!!! Too right. He's clearly got the gift of the gab for the gullible and those who are easily impressed and giddily awestruck.

And she's clearly aware that this bloke has as much difficulty keeping his tawdry Tory todger in his pants and he does keeping his gob shut rather than offending people while at the FO.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/501158...stmas-present/

Pity the two women (so far!) and children, whose life he's buggered up...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...arina-13206277

No memes there, just real hard facts?