I thought that this forum might have been a Snowflake free zone but obviously not!
I thought that this forum might have been a Snowflake free zone but obviously not!
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Okay thats me out of this bullshit. Llani Boy is just a is coming across as an extreme right wing thug. This forum is like a (very) small microcosm of the country but with a disproportionate number of older white conservative, UKIP and by the looks of things Tommy Robinson male supporters and very few ‘snowflakes’ as LB puts it.
The by and large civilised chatting and debating with Witton Park and Muddy Retriever is ruined completely by the pie in the sky bollocks and mumbo jumbo of the Oracle, the weird stalking of CL, the plain dumb ignorance of Stagger and the odd nut job like Llani Boy
FRA forum, you’re fired
Bye bye
TBH I’m out too. As much down to the failure of others to criticise LBs post.
I didn’t expect much else from the Oracle of odious political zealotry. But others I’d hoped for something other than deflection it just bypassing it completely.
Context - read my whole post - May's deal would not deliver on the manifesto commitment of either Tory or Labour.Originally Posted by Mossdog
There's not much point not holding EU membership, if you still have to apply all the rules and regs pertaining to trade.
Both parties have been elected on false promises at the General Election and the 30 or so MPs you refer to are amongst a minority in the Commons with SNP, Plaid, DUP, LibDem who are standing by their manifesto with respect to Brexit.
I think we all understand how the Tories are not upholding their manifesto and with every week that goes by they are chipping away a little more.
But perhaps it isn't so clear that Labour are, so here's a few snippets from the Labour manifesto.
"Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union."
It goes on to give detail about visas, work permits etc but that's out of the EEA in a nutshell.
"We will ensure proper transparency and parliamentary scrutiny of all future trade and investment deals."
"Through our Just Trading initiative launched in 2016, Labour will work with global trading partners to develop ‘best-in-class’ free trade and investment agreements that remove trade barriers."
"We will ensure that trade agreements cannot undermine human rights and labour standards."
"We will work with other WTO members to end the dumping of state-subsidised goods on our markets."
"Labour will develop the full range of trade remedies necessary to support key sectors affected by these unfair practices."
"Labour will champion the export interests of SMEs, ensuring all new trade agreements include a commitment to support their market access needs."
"Labour is committed to growing the digital economy and ensuring that trade agreements do not impede cross-border data flows"
"Labour will use trade negotiations to boost market access for British environmental goods and services"
"The UK's future prosperity depends on minimising tariff and non-tariff barriers that prevent us from exporting and creating the jobs and economic growth we need"
"Labour will set out our priorities in an International Trade White Paper to lead a national debate on the future of Britain's trade policy. We will ensure proper transparency and parliamentary scrutiny of all future trade and investment deals"
"We will ensure all future trade deals safeguard the right to regulate in the public interest and to protect public services."
Now I appreciate some might not understand how the Customs Union works, but all of the above one-liners are not compatible with being in the Customs Union.
and there is a clear lack of understanding of the implications. Those advocating a Customs Union don't seem to understand that it doesn't remove border friction.
This is from a BBC report on borders with the EU on the Turkey/Bulgaria border.
"Here though the delays are much longer" (than Norway/Sweden)
"Outside the single market, there's a need for all sorts of documentation, from export licences and invoices to transport permits.
That means huge queues of lorries are normal. A report prepared for the European Commission in 2014 suggested a waiting time of about three hours for lorries travelling from Turkey to Bulgaria.
But drivers hoping to cross the border say they often have to wait for more than 24 hours at busy times."
The proposers of a Customs Union seem to think this means free flow of vehicles at Dover, across the NI/Irish border etc.
It doesn't.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
And surely the moral of the story of the last page or two is... is you want to remain friends with people, then don't discuss politics with them...
I recall playing for years for my sunday football team... best mates and people i'd played, drank, and (to our discredit) sometimes fought alongside, for many years... One day, for a variety of reasons, i decided for a change and joined another team, who happened to be ran by a couple of Sikh brothers, and had a healthy contingent of Sikh players... the tirade of abuse i received from my 'mates' for "playing for a paki" and "wearing a burka in your next match" was beyond ignorant, and although i'm still friends with most of them, i'll never see a few of them in the same way again...
Similar goes for this forum... Stolly has been on this forum much longer than me, and on the couple of very brief occasions we've crossed paths on the Haworth Hobble, has come across as a thoroughly decent chap... however, crying-off a running forum because of disagreement with the views of a minority of member's views (on a non-running subject) does smack of throwing a tantrum because people don't agree with them...
For my view on the Dianne Abbott matter... in my view she is an utterly abysmal politician with a wealth of crackpot views... any desire to see her used as "taget practice" would be solely based on that fact, and the fact that she is either black or female has absolutely nothing to do with it... i also fail to see how a light-hearted throwaway comment that an image of her could be used as target practice, means people advocate the murder of politicians... when i was a youth, i often had an Aston Villa poster strapped to my dartboard in the days after yet another derby thrashing. That doesn't in any way equate to me backing the actions of that tosser from Birmingham City running on the pitch and whacking Jack Grealish.
I'm a member of a couple of football and music forums (although this forum is by far my favourite and the one i use most). There are undoubtedly some ridiculous views held by 'leave voters' that do leave me scratching my head. However there is a general undertone across all forums that leave voters are stereotypically thick, ignorant and racist northerners... i find this equally ridiculous.
Right... i'm back off to the Today's Training thread...!
Excellent post Travs. You made many of the points I wanted to but put them better than I would have done.
Very well put Travs. I was considering saying something myself but you have said it so well, I have nothing to add. Chill everyone! The debate has been good and wholesome. Let's not abandon it.
If you mean by pie in the sky bollocks, the objective facts that remainers creeds are provably false!
Take the single market and customs union that have done nothing for the UK whatsoever , as proven in growth figures, and even Larry Elliot of your favoured Guardian agrees with that. So our trade figure growth to rest of world way out strips our EU growth, It helps German automakers and French farmers and that is about as far as it goes. The EU has no interest in liberalising areas we are strong.
Also the euro is indeed a massive failure of the EU as it was always destined to be. Yet another repeat of a failed experiment, that will be the undoing of Europe And whilst technical demonstration that it is on its last legs via "target2 , ecb issuer limits , and the doom loop of Italian bank collateral " is mumbo jumbo to most ( except the financially literate)
But even the most starry eyed remainers can engage with massive permanent youth unemployment and debt, in such as Italy and the impossibility of southern countries To get out of spiral decline. That is visible to all and is the cause of populism. Why are remainers so unconcerned? Why do they turn a blind eye to suffering?
As backdrop , The world is indeed sleepwalking into a catastrophe that will make 2007 seem like a walk in the park. Evidenced by US treasury maturity yields which are screaming red alert. That I accept is mumbo jumbo outside the financially literate. Tell me: how much notice did you have of Lehman? For those of us studying it , it was inevitable over two years before, and our comment was called "pie in the sky" then, until the day it happened. Gordon brown, Mervin king, IMF , even such as stiglitz and krugman were all asleep at the wheel. Intoxicated with heroin of cheap money.
Indeed Gordon brown relied on the artificial bubble to milk for his excessive spending, so he was never going to call out the fraud. When the financial cracks become a chasm, remember You heard it here first!
So Instead of insulting me, I suggest you read such as Hans Werner Sims in depth studies, of the catastrophe the euro has caused , or the myriad of economic commentators now repeating the assertions now they are considered mainstream. The euro is on life support, and Brussels understandably is keeping very quiet about it.
It seems to me from long experience the more ardent the remainers ( or indeed corbynista) the less informed they are about the things they seemingly support without question.
Last edited by Oracle; 05-04-2019 at 09:12 AM.
Spot on Travs.
My final comment on the "target practice" is that if anyone is to be criticised it is the BBC and other news outlets who, in their eagerness to drop a few soldiers in the mire, broadcast the video in the first place rather than leave it on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube where most people including me would not have seen it.
I saw it as a few soldiers having a bit of fun in what is no doubt a stressful environment which, is what is was,and I viewed it in the same way.
Thug, nut job, come on lighten up folks!
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