Brexit

[TheGrump]

And so the situation lurches towards one of two outcomes:
Exit with no deal, which may or may not be as catastrophic as some 'experts' predict,
or,
Revoke Article 50 and remain.

The constitutional crisis precipitated by particularly the latter is the greatest threat of all to the U.K..

It is of course too much to hope that those on a very long list, who have deliberately undermined the Brexit process to satisfy their personal agendas will fall on their sword and permanently retire from public life and any position of influence. Some hope!
The political classes have fully revealed their true colours and ineptness.

Who is left to vote for?
A future of endless short term coalition governments?

[Witton Park]

And so the situation lurches towards one of two outcomes:
Exit with no deal, which may or may not be as catastrophic as some 'experts' predict,
or,
Revoke Article 50 and remain.

The constitutional crisis precipitated by particularly the latter is the greatest threat of all to the U.K..

It is of course too much to hope that those on a very long list, who have deliberately undermined the Brexit process to satisfy their personal agendas will fall on their sword and permanently retire from public life and any position of influence. Some hope!
The political classes have fully revealed their true colours and ineptness.

Who is left to vote for?
A future of endless short term coalition governments?

Ref the exit with No Deal, it is a little misleading whether or not you believe it will be a cliff edge of some sort.

There really isn't such a thing as no deal. There are already side deals agreed in the event of us leaving without signing the Withdrawal Agreement.

It also doesn't rule out some sort of organised arrangement, even still paying over the £39B, it just rules out being boxed in to certain future arrangements and processes that are deemed by many to be undesirable.

[JohnK]

This is a bit like the boat race, same teams, same venue and the same strokes ad infinitum.

Personally I don't give a toss what the outcome is in fact it will be interesting watching to see how the country pulls itself out of whatever mire we are dragged into and if ever the country can ever regain any worldwide credibility.

It is going to take a lot of new blood and a lot of younger folk in the driving seat a decade or two to sort out the mess and that is assuming they have learned the lessons from the fiasco that is currently being played out before us.

[Oracle]

Spot on. The biggest danger is the idiots do neither and leave us in no mans land.
None of the benefits but all of the liabilities.

And so the situation lurches towards one of two outcomes:
Exit with no deal, which may or may not be as catastrophic as some 'experts' predict,
or,
Revoke Article 50 and remain.

The constitutional crisis precipitated by particularly the latter is the greatest threat of all to the U.K..

It is of course too much to hope that those on a very long list, who have deliberately undermined the Brexit process to satisfy their personal agendas will fall on their sword and permanently retire from public life and any position of influence. Some hope!
The political classes have fully revealed their true colours and ineptness.

Who is left to vote for?
A future of endless short term coalition governments?

[Witton Park]

It is going to take a lot of new blood and a lot of younger folk in the driving seat a decade or two to sort out the mess and that is assuming they have learned the lessons from the fiasco that is currently being played out before us.

100% agree - I think we need this with or without Brexit. Politics lacks the fresh ideas we need, the current crop are lacking and have largely got where they are through party patronage.

[Graham Breeze]

This is the same Teresa May who delighted in the fact that she is a "bloody difficult woman". Her own party have seen that this is true. So have the DUP. And now it's Labour's turn to learn it first hand. It makes you wonder if she's the best person to compromise.

"Seen"? "Learn"?

Theresa May is the same TM now as when she was appointed/elected - the same qualities, good and bad.

She didn't arrive in a space ship from a far-away galaxy - she had a history like everybody else who has ever put themselves forward for any position, from the lowliest clerk to Chief Executive. When anyone fails the greater fault is with those who appointed, not those who offered to serve.

And our puffed up politicans, wallowing in vanity and self-importance, who shrank back to let her take up the task and now complain at the outcome deserve only continuing contempt.

[noel]

When anyone fails the greater fault is with those who appointed, not those who offered to serve.

And our puffed up politicans, wallowing in vanity and self-importance, who shrank back to let her take up the task and now complain at the outcome deserve only continuing contempt.

As they say: we get the politicians we deserve. What does that say about us as a nation?

[Oracle]

As they say: we get the politicians we deserve. What does that say about us as a nation?

Nobody deserves this lot. They are deliberately trying to sideline the people's decision, but wanting to blame someone else for the betrayal.

They dont seem to "get" the fact it isnt Mays deal, however convenient it may be to blame her. It is the only deal the EU will do, which is not a deal at all under aticle 50 which keeps us shackled, and the only negotiation they will do is even more shackles.

As a vegetarian I see the analogy in many restaurants. The meat eaters have no concept of what vegetarian food actually is, and believe vegetarian food should be a minimialist move away from meat food to comply with the word "vegetarian" so from that flawed logic are born, "vegetarian burgers" and "vegetarian sausages" and on occasions "vegetarian steak" . Apparently we should like them!

Exactly the same is true of a house of remainers trying to define brexit. Most of what they propose (like a customs union) is simply not brexit at all it is a different form of remain (and in that case a much worse one, if you consider sovereignty and control are the issues)

[Oracle]

delete duplicate

[noel]

They dont seem to "get" the fact it isnt Mays deal, however convenient it may be to blame her. It is the only deal the EU will do, which is not a deal at all under aticle 50 which keeps us shackled, and the only negotiation they will do is even more shackles.

You may be right there Oracle, I guess we'll have to wait for the memoirs to come out to see how much of the deal was driven by our team and how much by theirs. It was interesting to hear Geoffrey Cox, the attorney general, saying when we went over to talk to their team he got the idea they didn't want to negotiate, they thought he was there to "fudge" things.

Mrs May did have her red lines, which were her interpretation of what she thought the majority wanted, and we are told that the deal respects these red lines (or are they part of the non-binding political declaration?). So on the face of it, it appears there was some input from our side in the negotiations. And Mrs May could have pulled out if she'd've thought the deal wasn't worth putting to parliament, so she has to take a certain amount of responsibility.

In fact, now I think more about it, she's also ousted a few Brexit secretaries along the way, by sidelining them and running things through her team of civil servants.

Maybe we should call it the Barnier-May deal?

Interesting point you make with your vegetarian analogy. It has always seemed strange to have a remainer leading things. Mrs May could argue that's why she had David Davis, but then it became apparent he didn't really have any power in proceedings. Maybe that was a mistake. A more savvy politician could have given Mr Davis enough rope to hang himself with his "Davis deal" - or to succeed with getting something something through parliament.