Oh, apologies, I wasn't aware of that. Where are you getting this information from? All I can find on the subject is that Labour would campaign to remain if the choices were the current deal, a no deal or remain.Originally Posted by Witton Park
Oh, apologies, I wasn't aware of that. Where are you getting this information from? All I can find on the subject is that Labour would campaign to remain if the choices were the current deal, a no deal or remain.
I am now utterly confused!
What a complete and utter shambles.
I think this is the only really valid standpoint at this juncture
I am nevertheless impressed by those amongst us who seem to have a much better idea of what's going on that I do
They seem to have got themselves into this position in a very muddled way. Their official policy has always been to renegotiate a “better” deal than the Tories. However over a period of time shadow cabinet members like Keir Starmer have been saying that Labour’s policy is for a second referendum and that they would back remain. This now seems to be official policy but without ditching the first one to renegotiate a new deal.
Andrew Neil took John Healey (housing spokesman I think) to task on it last night. It was a car crash interview and I suspect it won’t stand up to scrutiny for too long before it is changed.
Just a total shambles by self believing nobody's who put themselves before the country and the voters they are supposed to represent. 👎
Who are you referring to?
I would have though all of the Tory "rebels" who in-their-opinion have put the good of the country before their own self interest in getting themselves kicked out of their party and in many cases will probably not be MPs in a couple of months have shown backbone. You may not agree with their stance but at least they stand up for their principles.
Now BoJo on the other hand does not know the meaning of the word.
Of course he does - "What is in my personal best interest?"
I agree it's very strange. It does seem like official party policy, but I don't think Corbyn has yet actually endorsed it.
You could call it "constructive ambiguity", a "broad church" or a "complete shambles" - it's probably all three. If you look at the sorry state the conservative party has got itself into over Brexit, you could argue that Labour's approach is a pragmatic one. Why tear themselves apart too? They clearly can't reconcile so many opposing views.
There is a school of thought, which states that the Labour Party now exists in name only. It has been infiltrated and is controlled by the far left with a Marxist agenda. The tactics of such an agenda are to confuse, disrupt, ferment revolution, and destroy. An analysis of Corbyn's and McDonnell's contradictory and ambiguous actions and words tend to support this view. Their version of democracy requires the electorate to vote in agreement with them, not for them to act on the wishes of the electorate. Thus there is more at stake than Brexit; that's just another vehicle for their tactics thanks to Cameron's incompetence in defining the referendum.
I know of staunch life-long Labour supporters, who will not vote for their party, while Corbyn and his cronies are in 'power'. It's time those Labour MPs, who remain true to the principles on which their party was founded woke up and acted. Not that other parties couldn't benefit from a dose of common sense and maturity, and remember they were elected to serve.
They joined a political party and by doing that you sign up to collective responsibility. Many of them had been in cabinet which is also bound by collective responsibility.
In the Tory party, as I have previously stated, whether you agree with the party position or not, it overwhelmingly selected a new leader to leave on or very close to the 31/10 with a renegotiated deal, or no deal.
You can argue whether that is what the country wants or not. But that is what around 90% of Tory MPs voted for and the membership.
The principled position after the election of Johnson for these 21 would have been to resign the party and either stay independent or join another party, then call a by election.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
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