Coronavirus

[Witton Park]

Just an update because I did have some contact me off forum to advise how I was going on.

It's complicated because I had a March holiday and a May holiday.

March - Ryanair 21/3 to Liv-Fuert returning 29/3

Initially the claim didn't work, then it took me to the wrong sort of claim, then a 3rd email took me to the correct portal.
On 10/4 I had a sorry we are taking a long time with your refund claim but..... email and request for patience.
There is also a hire car through them which they have so far failed to acknowledge as part of the claim.

I'm patient

This week I had a "Click here to claim your refund voucher" and then "but if you want a refund click here" but the only problem was that "here" was also for the refund voucher.

So with Ryanair, I am in a Groundhog Day loop if I follow their internal system.

Sop I've replied to one of their earlier emails advising I want my refund in full, cash, returned to my card.

My earlier enquiry to my credit card using an online form on the NATWEST website hasn't even been confirmed, so I am going to call them next week and raise this with them.


May 9th Ryanair Manchester to Chania (Crete)

It's cancelled, but no email yet to allow me to claim.

May 16th Jet to Heraklion - Manchester

It's also cancelled. They have sent an email saying I will get an email on how to claim at some point.

Hire Car Crete - around £100 - Rentalcars.com
It was simple - just go online, cancel, refund arranged and confirmed.

I'm lucky. I can afford to sit and wait for the process to follow through even if it takes months, but the time taken is in my opinion diabolical, and the systems set up by Ryanair have been appalling.

Another update.

Jet2 email today.

We’re sorry that your flight is no longer going ahead due to the unprecedented coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak. We know how much you were looking forward to a well-deserved break. Please see below for your affected booking(s).

We will automatically refund the total cost of your booking. This will be credited to the card you paid with within the next 28 days.

Please note that you’ll be automatically sent documentation that may seem irrelevant to the transaction above. This is part of a process that we can’t change at the moment while we’re focusing on dealing with the high volume of affected bookings.

Not even a requirement to claim. A straight refund.

I assume Jet2 are looking at a few issues.

One will be workload. It's the law that customers are entitled to refunds and fighting that is rather pointless.
I also think they will have half an eye on how they come out of this mess.
I will think twice about using Ryanair going forward, but I appreciate that Jet2 aren't making me fight for a full refund and will be more inclined to use them when I start flying again.

[Oracle]

The EU is busy removing the obligation to pay, for the reason airlines cannot.


Other than ( now massively) state subsidised German and french airlines of course.
The pretence of the “ level playing field” is now shattered.
Can Barnier ask for U.K. to adhere to level playing field with a straight face now?
The Germans were already cited with 60 breaches , against the U.K. 4,

I’ve asked the question , nobody answered it.
Would you be willing to put the airline into liquidation knowing the refunds may well push them under?
As Confucius say: why try to draw water from an empty well?

Reality is the U.K. government should not be considering “last resort” loans, it should make ex gratis damages payments as grants to the airlines and other businesses for having grounded them, funded by across the board cuts to public sector wages and pensions ( since privare sector pensions have been hammered by government policy and corona)

Then we would be “ in it together”
Can somebody point to a single penny the public sector has cut anywhere to pay?
Or any employees furloughed on less than full pay?

Another update.

Jet2 email today.

We’re sorry that your flight is no longer going ahead due to the unprecedented coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak. We know how much you were looking forward to a well-deserved break. Please see below for your affected booking(s).

We will automatically refund the total cost of your booking. This will be credited to the card you paid with within the next 28 days.

Please note that you’ll be automatically sent documentation that may seem irrelevant to the transaction above. This is part of a process that we can’t change at the moment while we’re focusing on dealing with the high volume of affected bookings.

Not even a requirement to claim. A straight refund.

I assume Jet2 are looking at a few issues.

One will be workload. It's the law that customers are entitled to refunds and fighting that is rather pointless.
I also think they will have half an eye on how they come out of this mess.
I will think twice about using Ryanair going forward, but I appreciate that Jet2 aren't making me fight for a full refund and will be more inclined to use them when I start flying again.

[Richard Head]

Update on our claims.

TUI package holiday to Dominican Republic due to depart 27/4. Spent one hour 45 minutes 3 weeks ago waiting for someone at TUI to answer, was told that we would be emailed a voucher within a week that could be used towards another holiday or converted to cash on line. No sign of the voucher yet.

Manchester Airport Premier Inn non refundable room, full automatic refund. Meet and Greet parking, refund obtained via Manchester Airpot app, took about a minute.

Trip to London to see Pretty Woman. Avanti West Coast return rail ticket, Advance non refundable ticket, full refund given. Ticketmaster automatic refund for show ticket. Hotel room was non refundable but they've offered a free night anytime up till 31st December which is fair enough.

So it's just TUI who are a ballache

[Muddy Retriever]

I’ve asked the question , nobody answered it.
Would you be willing to put the airline into liquidation knowing the refunds may well push them under?

Yes I would. It's not that I'd want to play a part in pushing an airline into liquidation - I wouldn't want to do that with any company that was in financial trouble. So why are airlines any different from any other distressed companies that have been hit by Covid-19 such as those in the hospitality sector? It is hard on them all, but if companies and individuals simply write off the debts that are owed to them, then how do they pay their own creditors? In all likelihood, some of the people who are wanting refunds will have been personally hit by the crisis and will need that money.

As I said in my previous post, it is not for individuals to rescue the airlines. If they deem it the correct thing to do, then it should be the Government that does so.

[Travs]

I have three b&b/cottage bookings in the next couple of months in Snowdonia and the Lakes.

First two weekends in June (for the now cancelled Welsh 1000m and Ennerdale), and one mid-July (for the still provisionally on Old Crown Round).

Hoping this weekends announcement might make things clearer regards whether travel is going to be possible. Especially as the deposit is due next week on the Welsh cottage.

Also want to pull the trigger on a foreign holiday for October, but it's way too early for that. I'm sure worldwide travel will generally be up and running by then, but i think there's a small chance UK citizens may still potentially be restricted going into some countries.

[Oracle]

I agree with the sentiment all business affected should be given grants not loans, funded by public sector cuts to make it equal damage.


The airlines are different character to most businesses.

1/ the capital tied up in aircraft and leases is very high in context of return on capital. The lease will be payable flying or not.Failing airlines could knock out banks , at 100 million an aircraft loan. 2008 loss proportions.
2/ which is also an indication of the massive down stream supply chain.
Airbus is now rocky, and all the suppliers tied to that.
3/ margins are minute. Profit the difference between eyewatering numbers,The airlines make a fiver a ticket, not least because of having to compete with chapter 11 and subsidised airlines.
4/ they have bought fuel futures to insulate customers , but the collapse in air traffic and usage generally has collapsed the oil price forcing them to sell the fuel at negative price in some cases. Ie they already paid for the fuel, landing fees and the rest.

Hospitality by and large are high gross margin lower capital ratio. The essential cost is wages already subsidised by government. So the two are not comparable. Government is subsidising a significant proportion of some businesses.

Note the overpaid air traffic controllers are paid regardless of how little they do.

Yes I would. It's not that I'd want to play a part in pushing an airline into liquidation - I wouldn't want to do that with any company that was in financial trouble. So why are airlines any different from any other distressed companies that have been hit by Covid-19 such as those in the hospitality sector? It is hard on them all, but if companies and individuals simply write off the debts that are owed to them, then how do they pay their own creditors? In all likelihood, some of the people who are wanting refunds will have been personally hit by the crisis and will need that money.

As I said in my previous post, it is not for individuals to rescue the airlines. If they deem it the correct thing to do, then it should be the Government that does so.

[Witton Park]

I’ve asked the question , nobody answered it.
Would you be willing to put the airline into liquidation knowing the refunds may well push them under?

Yes I would.

[Mike T]

Yes I would.

Same here. Flying should be, at the most, a once a decade thing, not "what shall we do this weekend?" Lots of money could be wasted on saving airlines - lets spend it on sorting out jobs for those who would lose them.

[Witton Park]

I had a one night booking at a hotel in Heraklion in Crete through Bookings.com. I'd picked their best room with a hot tub on the balcony and booked it non-refundable late January, I was due to fly out tomorrow.

I accepted the non-refundable element. My risk.

The owner called me an hour ago and asked for my email address. He's emailed a voucher to the value. It can be used up to end September 2021.

I have thanked him for his kind gesture and I'll go out of my way now to fly Jet2 return to Crete and rather than one night, maybe take a few nights in his hotel and help repay his kind gesture.

For anyone interested who might be travelling there consider the

DOM Boutique Hotel

Almirou 14, 71202

Heraklion, Crete, Greece

T: +30 281 600 1000

Μ: +30 6942408674

[Travs]

Same here. Flying should be, at the most, a once a decade thing, not "what shall we do this weekend?" Lots of money could be wasted on saving airlines - lets spend it on sorting out jobs for those who would lose them.

Wow!

That's quite an easy thing to say when you live in a beautiful part of the country, and i guess work relatively local.

On top of the argument as to whether we should be able to fly for holidays (i'm firmly for that, and intend to see as much of the world as possible)....

Some of us on occasion have to fly to visit work clients (and i mean overseas, not just too lazy to drive to Glasgow/Aberdeen/etc). Should this mean i can't then spend my hard earned salary flying anywhere in the next decade...!!!