Coronavirus

[molehill]

Completely out of context with the discussion, but when I come on here it usually says 300+ people logged in, currently 530 users online. Who ?????.

Don't understand that?

[Stagger]

And facebook thanks you!

Perfect.

Long may it continue.

[Oracle]

Completely out of context with the discussion, but when I come on here it usually says 300+ people logged in, currently 530 users online. Who ?????.

Don't understand that?

Not many logged in.

I would guess a lot of others are bots indexing the site, and hackers doing automatic testing for vulnerabilities.

[Stagger]

What would you like boris to change in the lockdown?

Meet my family

And

Golf courses open

Perfection 😉

[Witton Park]

What would you like boris to change in the lockdown?

Meet my family

And

Golf courses open

Perfection ��

Good question Stagger, because lots are accusing the Govt of getting it wrong, but they haven't any other answers themselves.

We are actually a couple of weeks behind where I think we should be but here goes.

Family contacts allowed again immediately. All personal contacts allowed from June, with the public allowed to self assess what they see as appropriate.

Allow all businesses to reopen immediately subject to having a review of operating policy in place for indoors.
NB. It is not feasible for some to have a distancing policy. Hairdressers, dentists, physios… but they should have some measures to mitigate and customers have the choice not to use them of course.

Open all primary schools and nurseries W/C 18/5

Open all other schools and universities W/C 25/5

Scrap the furlough scheme.

From July replace it with an enhanced version of the Lay-Offs and Short-time working scheme (which I think they should have done originally)

https://www.gov.uk/lay-offs-short-ti.../guarantee-pay

So for example:
Increase the maximum per day to £75
Increase the max 5 days payable per 3 month period to 30 days
Set the 3 month period for the enhancements as July - Sept.

To help businesses that can't come out of lockdown as quickly as others and to help those who can only come out gradually to do so, whilst supporting their staff and work to reduced rotas like 3 day weeks, which the furlough scheme doesn't allow.

Controversial I know, but from June I'd allow all outdoor sport and similar events to commence without restriction including allowing spectators.
Indoor events (such as snooker, church and similar gatherings) perhaps from July.

The public know the risks and it's about time the public were given the option to decide for themselves.

[Mike T]

Good question Stagger, because lots are accusing the Govt of getting it wrong, but they haven't any other answers themselves.

We are actually a couple of weeks behind where I think we should be but here goes.

Family contacts allowed again immediately. All personal contacts allowed from June, with the public allowed to self assess what they see as appropriate.

Allow all businesses to reopen immediately subject to having a review of operating policy in place for indoors.
NB. It is not feasible for some to have a distancing policy. Hairdressers, dentists, physios… but they should have some measures to mitigate and customers have the choice not to use them of course.

Open all primary schools and nurseries W/C 18/5

Open all other schools and universities W/C 25/5

Scrap the furlough scheme.

From July replace it with an enhanced version of the Lay-Offs and Short-time working scheme (which I think they should have done originally)

https://www.gov.uk/lay-offs-short-ti.../guarantee-pay

So for example:
Increase the maximum per day to £75
Increase the max 5 days payable per 3 month period to 30 days
Set the 3 month period for the enhancements as July - Sept.

To help businesses that can't come out of lockdown as quickly as others and to help those who can only come out gradually to do so, whilst supporting their staff and work to reduced rotas like 3 day weeks, which the furlough scheme doesn't allow.

Controversial I know, but from June I'd allow all outdoor sport and similar events to commence without restriction including allowing spectators.
Indoor events (such as snooker, church and similar gatherings) perhaps from July.

The public know the risks and it's about time the public were given the option to decide for themselves.

But they are not just deciding for themselves, they are deciding for those they give it to, if they have it of course - essential workers in particular are vulnerable and are faced with so many people per day. Look at what is happening in care homes, despite belated attempts at providing adequate PPE. The second wave could easily be worse than the first. Given what we have seen people doing for VE day I think we know that many lack common sense. The "socially distanced" conga for example - like a long line of slip streaming cyclists - I hate to think of the long fugg of exhaled breaths they were dancing through.

[Witton Park]

But they are not just deciding for themselves, they are deciding for those they give it to, if they have it of course - essential workers in particular are vulnerable and are faced with so many people per day. Look at what is happening in care homes, despite belated attempts at providing adequate PPE. The second wave could easily be worse than the first. Given what we have seen people doing for VE day I think we know that many lack common sense. The "socially distanced" conga for example - like a long line of slip streaming cyclists - I hate to think of the long fugg of exhaled breaths they were dancing through.

Mike I find it quite alarming that you can't even engage constructively with a phased move out of lockdown over the next 4.5 months. That's the timescale for my unlocking and support.

My outline isn't a return to where we were in February even then.

I have a few points.

All workers are essential. I include all those that are out of work because of lockdown and instead of paying tax, are taking tax refunds/grants to add to our current 2 Trillion deficit.

"many lack common sense" I haven't seen anything particular about VE day. Generally through the lockdown, the blatant flouters are probably a fraction of 1% of the population.
If we delay due to a few nutjobs, then we are doomed.

and "those we give it to" well you have to have it first. The numbers in the general population seem to be thin on the ground with the cases now mostly coming from the care sector.
But it's not just about giving, it's also about receiving, and so people can choose to continue to keep their distance and many will.
I won't be rushing to the pub when it first opens to play darts and pool, but I may start making my walks via a rural pub, where I can sit in a beer garden, order a pint, and drink it with peace of mind.

I cannot see how a second wave can be anywhere near the first. Firstly some are now likely immune for the foreseeable future, perhaps many millions. Secondly, behaviours even with the fullest and quickest lockdown will be changed, so the rate of spread can never be the same as it was previously. Thirdly, such epidemics frequently tail off naturally and that seems to be the case in other western countries whether light touch like Sweden, or heavy lockdowns like Spain.

[Mike T]

Mike I find it quite alarming that you can't even engage constructively with a phased move out of lockdown over the next 4.5 months. That's the timescale for my unlocking and support.

My outline isn't a return to where we were in February even then.

I have a few points.

All workers are essential. I include all those that are out of work because of lockdown and instead of paying tax, are taking tax refunds/grants to add to our current 2 Trillion deficit.

"many lack common sense" I haven't seen anything particular about VE day. Generally through the lockdown, the blatant flouters are probably a fraction of 1% of the population.
If we delay due to a few nutjobs, then we are doomed.

and "those we give it to" well you have to have it first. The numbers in the general population seem to be thin on the ground with the cases now mostly coming from the care sector.
But it's not just about giving, it's also about receiving, and so people can choose to continue to keep their distance and many will.
I won't be rushing to the pub when it first opens to play darts and pool, but I may start making my walks via a rural pub, where I can sit in a beer garden, order a pint, and drink it with peace of mind.

I cannot see how a second wave can be anywhere near the first. Firstly some are now likely immune for the foreseeable future, perhaps many millions. Secondly, behaviours even with the fullest and quickest lockdown will be changed, so the rate of spread can never be the same as it was previously. Thirdly, such epidemics frequently tail off naturally and that seems to be the case in other western countries whether light touch like Sweden, or heavy lockdowns like Spain.

I don't disagree with all your suggestions, just the idea that the public should be able to decide for themselves. Given we still have 5,000 new cases and 500 deaths a day, there are obviously plenty of people out there still spreading it. Any lessening of the current lockdown needs to be done carefully, or we are in real trouble. Unfortunately the only way to measure the effect of any changes will be to count new cases and deaths several weeks after the changes were made.
Apparently epidemiologists call excess deaths in populations like we are seeing now "harvesting" - horrible word in the context - the last thing we want is a bigger harvest than necessary from now - unfortunately we have to start from here, and cannot reverse the poor timing of decisions that has got us to where we are.

[Witton Park]

Mike - even now the public are deciding for themselves and doing a pretty good job of it.

Look at the way testing has been increased. 10 x the testing but the new cases are falling. That has to be taken in context.

The daily deaths are falling and of the circa 500 per day, how many are from the general public. I think most are care sector now. Unfortunately once it gets in to an enclosed environment with many frail people, it gets through them quite quickly.
9 now in the one where my late uncle was.
He passed away around 10 days ago. So he probably caught it a few weeks after lockdown.

Put a firewall around the frail by all means, but we have to get cracking.

[Witton Park]

watching the news Ridge and Marr this morning, it seems that many will have a problem with the "Stay Alert" tagline for the next phase of CV management.
It's too ambiguous.

So perhaps we need to considerer a COVID version of the Tufty Club for adults? Maybe a Green Cross Code Equivalent?

Stop the negativity.
Tin Foil - stock up
Avoid social media
Yammer ye not!

Abstain from TV news
Look after yourself
Eschew pointing the finger
Run - it's good for you
Taxes - the country can't function without them!