Quote Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
But they are not just deciding for themselves, they are deciding for those they give it to, if they have it of course - essential workers in particular are vulnerable and are faced with so many people per day. Look at what is happening in care homes, despite belated attempts at providing adequate PPE. The second wave could easily be worse than the first. Given what we have seen people doing for VE day I think we know that many lack common sense. The "socially distanced" conga for example - like a long line of slip streaming cyclists - I hate to think of the long fugg of exhaled breaths they were dancing through.
Mike I find it quite alarming that you can't even engage constructively with a phased move out of lockdown over the next 4.5 months. That's the timescale for my unlocking and support.

My outline isn't a return to where we were in February even then.

I have a few points.

All workers are essential. I include all those that are out of work because of lockdown and instead of paying tax, are taking tax refunds/grants to add to our current 2 Trillion deficit.

"many lack common sense" I haven't seen anything particular about VE day. Generally through the lockdown, the blatant flouters are probably a fraction of 1% of the population.
If we delay due to a few nutjobs, then we are doomed.

and "those we give it to" well you have to have it first. The numbers in the general population seem to be thin on the ground with the cases now mostly coming from the care sector.
But it's not just about giving, it's also about receiving, and so people can choose to continue to keep their distance and many will.
I won't be rushing to the pub when it first opens to play darts and pool, but I may start making my walks via a rural pub, where I can sit in a beer garden, order a pint, and drink it with peace of mind.

I cannot see how a second wave can be anywhere near the first. Firstly some are now likely immune for the foreseeable future, perhaps many millions. Secondly, behaviours even with the fullest and quickest lockdown will be changed, so the rate of spread can never be the same as it was previously. Thirdly, such epidemics frequently tail off naturally and that seems to be the case in other western countries whether light touch like Sweden, or heavy lockdowns like Spain.