Coronavirus

[Travs]

But it's not looking too hopeful for your Welsh 3000's attempt.

That is very true. At present, Snowdon and Glyders are "closed" whilst Carneddau is open. My gut feeling for early June is that the mountains will be open, but the travel/accommodation won't be allowed...

[Oracle]

Useful post.

A few para/ sentence breaks would make it easier to read!

I don't know what people expect - there's no certainty and I don't think its possible for anyone to say (for example) 'Normal exercise will resume on xx date at xx time' it will all depend on what happens over the next few weeks as gradual changes take place.
What I think is clear is that we (ie all of us) perhaps need to understand and accept a particular level of risk. I don't know what level will be acceptable but at the moment we of course accept risk as part of out everyday lives. Most of it is remote - we rarely if ever think if we buy fish and chips that someone may be washed overboard from a trawler and when we fill our car up we never consider the oil rig worker who may be killed in an industrial accident. But unless you work on a trawler or an oilrig you are unlikely to be concerned - but we expect those who do to take those risks on our behalf. So maybe its not unreasonable for us to take risks on behalf of others.Other risks we accept more readily as a society even if they are still at the back of our minds - because the perceived benefits appear to outweigh the perceived level of risk - driving and smoking come to mind. We accept these personal risks more readily because we feel we have a degree of control over them - I choose not to smoke and I try to drive carefully. But I cant control the risk of a drunken driver colliding with me or that a hospital bed I need might be taken by someone with a smoking related illness. And of course driving and smoking support a massive section of the economy in taxes and transport of goods.
So I think the difference is that for the first time for many people the virus poses a direct perceivable threat to them - its not a random unknown delivery driver having a road accident miles away on their way to deliver your latest ebay purchase, its a potential threat to you personally. But we do have a degree of control - like choosing not to smoke I can choose, for now at least, not to run with my friends. But eventually I may feel that its a reasonable level of risk to do that - providing they feel the same way of course. I think we need to learn to accept and live with that if we are ever going to return to a level of so called normality and no level of Government advice is ever likely to alter that - and I am also worried that they will never admit to taking a risk as they (or others) will insist everything must be 'safe'.

[Oracle]

Full pay is a clear moral hazard

Nobody should be furloughed on full pay, as is much of the public sector.
There has to be a tangible benefit to working, and a tangible loss for not working.

Otherwise you also get unions demanding safety for employees essentially designed to male it harder for employers to return to work.

But There is no way to make it safe. Corona is now a fact of life.
It is not part of workplace safety to eliminate risks in the environment.

Otherwise the unions will then start proceedings against employers if their members get covid!

I think there is a great deal of truth in your post Mark.

I think add in to that several other elements:

Has society increasingly become dependant on people to strongly guide them through most aspects of life?

If you are a furloughed worker on full pay, are you really in a rush to get back?

If you are a small business getting a £10k grant and free rates for the year, are you in a rush to get back?

If you are so extremely anti this current Government, are you inclined to act in a way that might help them?

If you are a leader of a devolved assembly, do you want to make a point of difference between you and a Govt that is politically an opponent? Are you concerned that too much alignment might reflect badly and affect future elections? (see LibDems in coalition)

Many factors are at play, but I think you have nailed quite a few.

[Witton Park]

Full pay is a clear moral hazard

Nobody should be furloughed on full pay, as is much of the public sector.
There has to be a tangible benefit to working, and a tangible loss for not working.

Otherwise you also get unions demanding safety for employees essentially designed to male it harder for employers to return to work.

But There is no way to make it safe. Corona is now a fact of life.
It is not part of workplace safety to eliminate risks in the environment.

Otherwise the unions will then start proceedings against employers if their members get covid!

100% agree and as I think Mark was saying, how can you make working on a trawler safe? Like many jobs you can only reduce risk.

[Mark G]

Thanks for your comments guys. I'd just like to add that if I'm prepared to let someone work on an oil rig so I can put fuel in my car to go to a fell race I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be expected to be willing to go and buy a meal in a cafe to support someone else's livelihood - once the degree of risk involved is also reasonable, which I accept will be different for different people.

[Oracle]

Barber - you must be joking - unless it was just for sales, not treatments/cuts.

I saw a funny picture of PPE barber fashion.

A guy had cut two eye holes in a black brolly, and had armholes to reach through to reach someone’s hair on the barbers seat, and was giving a hair cut, working behind it!

Needs must!

[Mike T]

For those who are interested in the risk factors in Covid related deaths this is a very interesting and comprehensive paper:

https://i.emlfiles4.com/cmpdoc/0/7/8...DMKDQM,RK3NV,1

[Stagger]

Well?
All English are now banned from Wales and Scotland.
That's not nice in fell running terms.

[Stagger]

Well done Boris

[Llani Boy]

I don't think Boris has banned people from visiting Scotland or Wales at all.

He is trying his best to allow us to gradually escape from the restrictions and we just have to bear with it.

I'd love to nip "home" to Llani for a few days like I normally would but just accept that presently it would be taking the piss.
Opposition politicians are all saying they will work with the government, and then, with a large dollop of hindsight go on to snipe and criticise the measures but come up with no worthwhile plans of their own.

Thank goodness Corbyn and Co aren't running the show!