Coronavirus

[Witton Park]

It's the way it's been politicised by the tory press and the anti union / teacher brigade.

Of course we never see anything politicised by the anti Tory press, or the pro-union, hard left teacher brigade.
The National News Channels are expertly rolling out doctors, burses and teachers at the moment giving us an anti Govt policy stance, without telling us that they are largely political activists of a Corbynite bent.

Anyway, how about this?
"Children unlikely to transmit coronavirus, says study cited in PM's push to reopen schools"

Luke Henriques-Gomes, 26 Apr 2020 in the Tory rag The Guardian

[Witton Park]

"Children unlikely to transmit coronavirus, says study cited in PM's push to reopen schools"

Luke Henriques-Gomes, 26 Apr 2020 in the Tory rag The Guardian

"The Guardian, over 3 weeks ago! Can we get back to school in double quick time?"
NASUWT Spokesperson and leader of Bury Council

[jackd]

"The Guardian, over 3 weeks ago! Can we get back to school in double quick time?"
NASUWT Spokesperson and leader of Bury Council

Another Australian study that one ( if not the same study we were discussing earlier - haven't had time to check). My point re. Australia's situation compared with our stands. Different stage in the outbreak requires different repsonses.

[jackd]

1/ There is no such thing as safe. Bugs are an occupational hazard in schools.

2/ The case for closure was borderline. Teachers “ self isolating “ and unions forced the closures due to too low staffing. They should still have kept the schools open. Others could have come in in absentia.

3/ doing half a job from home is stuffing all others who want to work, but teachers deciding parents have to look after there own kids. Selfish is the word. At what point did you consider others who want to go into work?

4/ If you all stood up to your unions , you would be back in work already. They are a convenient excuse. My parents were teachers . NAS and NUT were lefty troublemakers back then. Hated by most teachers, but too few were willing to stand up to them.

Schools have form.

I refer to the icy period several years ago.
Schools (and all those who get paid regardless) decided it was too dangerous to go into school.

All those who have to go into work to get paid, made it. All those who had to make it to my house had no problem doing it. But it was too dangerous for teachers.

Seriously.
With the attitude problem in the public sector of schools, transport workers, local authorities we would have lost the war.

I don’t know many private sector workers who invest in cayman either. Total red herring. Average teacher retirement age is still 60. Unaffordable.

All I am arguing for is parity.

Good morning Oracle,

Not got time to reply to you just yet, got to log on to do my remote teaching. I'm not on furlough, I'm not skiving, and my hopes of retiring at 60 are fading fast. Bye for now.

[neilly]

I'm with Travs on this one. With my expertise, I could have gone into the oil industry, civil engineering, etc and earned a lot more, but would have had less security in case of a downturn in such a sector than I do in academia (although my security in academia has gone out the window, but that's another story).

I remember a professor of Maths at Sheffield University (who worked in areas of maths with industrial applications; and note: "professor" is top grade within a department) telling me that his 31-year-old daughter was earning more than he did, and his younger daughter soon would be. I think they worked in finance or insurance or something similar.

I was recently contacted by one of my former students, now working as an actuary; a 2015 graduate, but I suspect he may already be earning more than I am. I'm not complaining: I have had a satisfying career, I have certainly earned enough to live on and, just to upset Oracle, I will have a Defined Benefit pension.

At the lower end of the pay range, I'm sure WP's observations are true; I think the difference between the top and the bottom is much greater in the private than the public sector. How much more would the £100k public sector manager be earning in the private sector?

I've never really understood the public sector bashing that goes on. I come from a family who are all public sector workers-Doctors, Nurses, Psychologists, teachers etc. My wife's side too. It never crossed my mind to do anything else growing up. After 20 years nursing I hit the top of my pay scale £40k. The only way to go higher is to go into management-tried that and hated it. I went the other way and went part time and opened a BnB. Everyone knows that there are pros and cons for both public and private. I chose job security, good holidays and a good pension.I could have worked in the private sector as a nurse earning much more doing agency work. We all make choices. None of my colleagues are furloughed or working from home. I do agree that all furloughed workers, public or private should be on the same. I know several people who are lovingbthe furlough and have no intention of going back to work unless they're made to.

[Muddy Retriever]

I know several people who are lovingbthe furlough and have no intention of going back to work unless they're made to.

I suspect many will find that there is no job waiting for them when the Job Retention Scheme ends.

[Witton Park]

I could have worked in the private sector as a nurse earning much more doing agency work.

I don't class this agency work as private sector because the work is mostly still NHS, but subbed out because their internal management is so poor - much like Capita functions performed for the state - often by people transferred across from the old Govt dept.
It happens across the public sector and I experienced it with fostering.
As Local Authority Foster Carers we received circa £200 pw allowance per child for 7 years.

LA's typically provide such a flat rate, and very little support. You get no respite and quite often a placement ends and within a few days you are brought another placement, so we often even struggled to take a holiday between placements.
If anything goes wrong in the placement, you as foster carer are likely to be made a scapegoat, as the LA puts a firewall around itself.
It pushes many foster carers out to private agencies such as Cambian, or charitable ones like Barnados

As a Private Foster Carer you will typically receive £400 per month per child, 21 days paid respite per year and a retaining payment if they leave you without a placement.
If the agency can pay £400 per child, that means they are likely paying the agency somewhere around £1000 per week.

The agency sees the foster carer as a valuable resource and this is where the private mentality kicks in. a content, professional and looked after team of foster carers are key to the future success of the agency.
So the attitude is all around retention and support.

For the LA it came across that the Foster Carers were often an irritant and the attitude of the LA to a foster carer stepping down was little more than a shrug.

This doesn't only work with the foster carers, it's also the case that Social Workers are jumping ship and often setting up their own agencies.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ivate-agencies
An interesting piece here reflecting much of what I have posted.

It's rife in the public sector and I see it down to mindset, rather than money.

[jackd]

1/ There is no such thing as safe. Bugs are an occupational hazard in schools.

2/ The case for closure was borderline. Teachers “ self isolating “ and unions forced the closures due to too low staffing. They should still have kept the schools open. Others could have come in in absentia.

3/ doing half a job from home is stuffing all others who want to work, but teachers deciding parents have to look after there own kids. Selfish is the word. At what point did you consider others who want to go into work?

4/ If you all stood up to your unions , you would be back in work already. They are a convenient excuse. My parents were teachers . NAS and NUT were lefty troublemakers back then. Hated by most teachers, but too few were willing to stand up to them.

Schools have form.

I refer to the icy period several years ago.
Schools (and all those who get paid regardless) decided it was too dangerous to go into school.

All those who have to go into work to get paid, made it. All those who had to make it to my house had no problem doing it. But it was too dangerous for teachers.

Seriously.
With the attitude problem in the public sector of schools, transport workers, local authorities we would have lost the war.

I don’t know many private sector workers who invest in cayman either. Total red herring. Average teacher retirement age is still 60. Unaffordable.

All I am arguing for is parity.

I’ll reply in kind if you don’t mind.

1 – Of course, but not all bugs put you, or a vulnerable member of your family, in an icu on a ventilator.

2- The case for closure was put by the scientists advising the government, not the unions.

3 -Teachers did not decide ‘parents have to look after their own kids’. See No 2 above – the government closed the schools and told people to stay at home. I’d rather be back at work, but that doesn’t fit with what you like to believe. Why have you raised my ‘consideration of others who want to go into work’. I show consideration for others daily in my work and through my outlook on life. You seem to be suggesting I have no consideration for others "selfish is the word". Here's another two: Ad Hominem.

4 – I will continue to take advice from my union, who also want as quick a return to work as I do, when the scientific advice says it is the right time to do so. In fact, we are preparing for a phased return as are many colleagues in other schools. ‘lefty trouble makers’ – really?

Snow and ice? Your anecdote says nothing about the issue and the reasons for closing in such circumstances. Heads & l.e.a’s decide when to close and it’s out of fear of being sued if a kid slips and breaks something. We don’t choose to stay off – we are required to go in if possible, and it often is, even if the kids are off.

Public sector attitudes losing us the war? Do you need a good lie down? That would make Johnson our Churchill. You’re right, we’d have no chance.

As for my aside about the Cayman Islands, you fail to address my point about how the public sector contribute to the economy and its not a case of private = good / public = bad.

As I posted earlier, a modern diverse economy cannot function without either, and both contribute to the economy. Indeed, the private sector regulary benefits from the largesse of the government in terms of grants, research funding, lobbying, contracts etc not to mention infrastructure, the legislation that benefits them and having a healthy educated workforce available. Whom, incidentally some choose to pay a minimum wage to thanks to the government subsidising the payroll bill through the use of universal credit.

Which brings me back to the point of me getting involved in this thread. You seem to repeatedly suggest that the public sector contribute nothing and that the private sector is footing the bill. Indeed that the public sector are the problem in some way.

Again, I repeat - It’s the government who are funding the support for businesses. The government who are paying furloughed workers. When the time to comes to repay it all, the public sector will no doubt be doing their bit through another round of austerity. Although this time it will be at the hands of some of the politicians who helped pen that rather frightening polemic ‘Britannia Unchained’. It’ll be austerity on steroids, but without the fun factor.

Finally, teachers’ pensions. You have presented another fallacious argument. We were told about the unaffordability 10 years ago (and that’s debatable). That’s why they were reformed. We now pay more in, get less out and those who are on the new scheme will be going at 65 at the moment.

One thing we can agree on. The sooner we are all back at work the better.

Anyway, I’ve logged off for the day and It’s brightened up. I’m off up the Whinlatter fells for an hour or two. I’ll have to start posting in the daily exercise thread next.

[RichA]

Well said Jack though you are arguing against a contrarian echo chamber so expect a foam flecked response sometime soon

[JohnK]

Well said Jack though you are arguing against a contrarian echo chamber so expect a foam flecked response sometime soon

+ 1 on the above, your posts are a breath of fresh air Jack