101 uses for a mobile!

[wheezing donkey]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but the expression of that opinion does not, surely, have to stoop to questioning the sanity of a race organiser? You'll be very fortunate if their is an 'Edale Skyline' race at all next year, at this rate! The organiser of the 3 Peaks Cyclo Cross Race ( same man for 40 odd years and he's also ridden in ever event) makes some pretty hard and unpopular calls as to just what kit you must, can and cannot use in that event and people do express disagreement at some of those decisions, but at the end of the day everyone has full respect for the man's tireless efforts to lay on a safe and fair event for the enjoyment of all the participants. Some of the posters on this thread could learn a thing or two from posters on the 3PCX forum.
I'm a bit indifferent to the cell phone issue, but take heart AndyJ, don't let the 'knockers' grind you down.

[Graham Breeze]

Some food for thought here. I would have said - "always go with the organiser", but this is assuming that the organiser (and organising committee presumably in this instance) is actually sane.

Mmmh. "sane" or "insane", and skipping lithely (oh I am very lithe) past the philosophical debate (eg was Nietsche sane? Not sure, but he wrote more profound words than one will ever read on this Forum) surely the point is that the organiser decides?

Did Nietsche organise many fell races?

[Mud]

was Nietsche sane?

Did Nietsche organise many fell races?

Zzz...

[fellhell]

Did Nietsche organise many fell races?

I Kant think of any, but they he may have run on a Plato.

[dominion]

Zzz...

Is that your phone going off on vibrate mode?

[Grouse]

I think it's 'dumbing down' as is happeneing in so many other areas. I use the internet but I am very wary of high technology. Call me paranoid if you like (lots of people do - I know all about them .) The government don't want a populace of people who can think for and take care of themselves: they want a populace of consumers - the stupider the better, and they know that in a few years time civil disorder and environmental catastrophe will be the dominant features of society. The surveillance and policing of this society is already being put into place. Use your loaf - what do you really think our lives will be like in ten years time? It's scary to think about isn't it? I feel strongly about the issue of biometric id schemes and surveillance generally, and I think the push for it from governments and big corporations is part of the preparations for the civil controls which will become necessary if we don't sort out our energy problems - and it don't look like we are gonna do that do it? Problems like food shortages and breakdowns of local government - here not in Africa. I am not a complete pessimist. I have two kids and I dearly hope that my worst fears are wrong. If we continue our short term consumerist culture (which mobile phones play a big part in), and we continue to go along with government's and corporation's lie about sustainable economic growth then the future is truly bleak. Hope for the future lies with the movements against these ideas. There are signs that government is waking up to these ideas, but of course they are in thrall to the real rulers of the world - the corporations.

I think one option for the government, after their biometric id plans have finally unravelled, is to combine mobile phone technology with their id plans, so your phone is your id card. People think I'm strange for not carrying a mobile phone, but everywhere I look I can see people talking to people who are not there. Society is fragmented. Mobile phones fragment society. Divided and conquered. The only hope for us is if we reject (disposable) mobile phones and the other wasteful polluting and soporific trappings of globalisation, and 'sustainable' economic growth and start talking to each other about our world at a local level and how we want it to be,and taking action to make it like that, using low cost, low tech local solutions.

I know I'm rambling a bit but I hope this makes sense. I'm not just railing about it because I'm a member of the Awkward Squad (I am a fully paid - up member). To me it goes against everything that fell racing is about. I escape these worries when I run and race. I don't want to live my life in complete safety; part of the allure of the fells is that they are potentially dangerous - beauty and danger often go together. How many of us would go there if they were completely safe?

[wheezing donkey]

Grouse, I am truly with you on most of the above. The difficulty with our philosophy is that it does not EASILY lend itself to the structure, organisation and management of fell races. Previous posts on here have hinted at what might or might not happen to a fell race organiser, should the worst befall one of his competitors. They need to wake up... it already has happened. Pete Bland, as organiser of the Kentdale Horseshoe, was well and truly mauled by the media and the "powers that be" at the inquest into Judith Taylor who perished of hypothermia in the 1994 race. That is why the event was moved from April to July. Conditions were not dissimilar to the 2007 Edale Skyline. If you truly want to cast off the shackles of techno-legislation, on the fells, then get into the arena of long distance personal challenges and if competition is your thing, try orienteering - no personal electronic frippery allowed, apart from your SportIdent timing card, just a map and compass.

[Grouse]

I am into the arena of long distance personal challenges, and I nearly stated in my post that if I wanted to be completely safe I would stick with orienteering in the park. I just don't think that techno legislation should play a part in fell racing to any great degree and I am afraid, like others that it may well prove to be the thin end of the wedge. Will runners be required to carry a gps in the future? No? Why not? They might not be able to read a map. Is there also the possibilty of 'risk compensation' AJ said one of his rationales was that it is not easy to vet entrants for relevant experience. If mobiles are mandatory, are they going to relax the vetting procedure?

[wheezing donkey]

Grouse, don't assume that orienteering is safe. 12 months ago, I did my first night event in a very popular wood on the Lancs/Cumbria border. Embarrassingly, with only my weedy little 7 l.e.d. Lucido Coolight for illumination, I ended up slightly off the map and up against an 8ft tall mesh fence, which I could have easily climbed. If I had done, it would have 150 - 200 feet into one of the deepest disused lime quarries in the area!

[Grouse]

I do not assume orienteering is safe. I organise children's orienteering events, so I do have sympathy with the organiser's concerns. Maybe I should insist that all the kids who do orienteering with me take mobile phones. Never even occurred to me. It would be missing the point though surely. These kids need to practice thinking for themselves and developing self reliance. That is precisely why they get so much out of it. A bit like me and fell running I suppose. I just hope BOF don't get to hear about this or they might insist on kids carrying phones, and then it wouldn't be worth them orienteering at all in my opinion. Still they could always go on the computer - some good orienteering simulations available on the internet. That would be safe wouldn't it?