101 uses for a mobile!

[Wheeze]

I agree with GrahamB's sentiments that there are alot of new refugees from other sports (myself included) who do not have the experiance of some top/experianced fell runners and would get hoplessley lost/in trouble.

Without wanting to make any personally directed comment, should people who 'would get hopelessly lost' enter a fell race? An important facet of fell running is to take personal responsibilty for yourself, not pass it off onto someone else. Note, I am not talking about the 'urban orienteering' (to quote Jonathon Gibbon) type courses where a 'crocodile' of 500 runners run a fairly short fairly low level route but the true mountainous high level, exposed and remote routes where navigational skills are a potentially lifesaving attribute.

For new refugees there is always the grading of the race in the Fellrunning calendar which clearly state if navigational skills are required. At least then, anyone who is unsure of their ability to navigate can avoid those races where navigation may be an issue.

Have I ever got lost? Of course I have!! It just made more determined to prepare more thoroughly.

[Rodders rambler]

I have never been involved in a serious car accident, so does that mean I should rise up agaist the law of wearing a seat belt?

This is another example in my opinion of excessive legislation,another is wearing a helmet on a motorbike.I beleive people should put a helmet on for there own safety not because some power obsessed politician tells you too.Surely people are sensible enough to make there own mind up.The only way it becomes a problem is if your actions cause cost or harm to others.Which,returning to running,you could argue,having to rescue someone ill equiped in a race does.The only way round this would be to have personal insurance and so its up to the runners to conform with there own policy and not the organiser to insist on such measures.If you want to run against your policies rules for competition,its you that is punished not the organisers.
I'm sure this will bring up its own problems,but we have to get round this idea of the organiser being held responsible.

[Vince]

Without wanting to make any personally directed comment, should people who 'would get hopelessly lost' enter a fell race?

The reason I do not enter any of them, as I am famous for getting lost, even in my own area of the West Pennine Moors. It would take a lot of low level races to build up to them. But that is me acting responsible as a competitor, just as the seasoned runner would not race if they were injured.
With the refugees from other sports coming in, so will the impulse entering (which you hear of on here) "My first fell race and I entered X,Y, or Z" like they have for the London Marathon.

[IainR]

It would take a lot of low level races to build up to them.

Why not pick up experience outside of racing? A one day course (probably costing less than £30) and a further 2-3 days spent out on the hill will give you the skills to navigate around most races. It doesn't mean you won't get lost, but once lost you should be able to relocate again.

[Wheeze]

Vince, running 'low level' races will never make you a good navigator since the pace is so quick that, as Chris has said, if you stop to take your bearings, your race is over.
Iains suggestion is sound but so also is reading up on it and then going out into the hills on your own and realising just how straightforward 'simple' nav really is. Its really satisfying to be able to plot a route, dial it into the compass and then run, head down and see how accurate and easy the technique is. Gives you a lot of confidence for the day when you are high, miles from anywhere and going for it in the clag.

[Mark G]

I agree with most of what you say but this last bit is another example of missing the wider issue. If one organiser does it and people don't question it, then others will feel the need to include it as a requirement because a PRECEDENT has been set. If it becomes the norm for this to be a requirement (which could easily happen) then it will change the face of the sport in a way I and others above find undesirable.

I will not be entering the Edale Skyline; I never had any intention of entering it, so this ruling does not affect me... YET.

The problem will only affect me directly when and if this ruling rears it's ugly head in other races. It's not enough to simply say 'OK, I won't enter' because gradually more and more races will be denied me if I do that.

As I've already said, this growing tendency to be over-cautious will, ultimately, devalue the sport UNLESS we speak up about it..... which you did, so sorry for the tirade.

Fair point, perhaps I was being a little too restrained! They'll be flagging entire courses next. Lets try and stop this now before it gets out of hand!

[AJF]

Without wanting to make any personally directed comment, should people who 'would get hopelessly lost' enter a fell race? An important facet of fell running is to take personal responsibilty for yourself, not pass it off onto someone else. Note, I am not talking about the 'urban orienteering' (to quote Jonathon Gibbon) type courses where a 'crocodile' of 500 runners run a fairly short fairly low level route but the true mountainous high level, exposed and remote routes where navigational skills are a potentially lifesaving attribute.

For new refugees there is always the grading of the race in the Fellrunning calendar which clearly state if navigational skills are required. At least then, anyone who is unsure of their ability to navigate can avoid those races where navigation may be an issue.

Have I ever got lost? Of course I have!! It just made more determined to prepare more thoroughly.

I am a new refugee as it seems to be the term (although I don't like the term, refugees are always through history the oppressed minority, thats not very inclusive is it?)

People are still pussyfooting around this situation. If you cannot navigate you shouldn't enter the longer races! SIMPLE. This does not just apply to the so called "refugees" this applies to all those who have ran for years but put a map in their hands and they start chanting "Never Eat Shredded Wheat" at you.

The short up and downs are a bit easier (apparently, never done a short race) but the longer ones may not give people the opportunity to follow the person in front and hope they know where they are. This is a life threatening situation and could end up with real heartache for a lot of people.

The ability to re-locate yourself and get yourself out of trouble is essential. You want to take the wrong turn off scafell in the clag? There is some big drops there.

Nav really is an easy and enjoyable part of fell running. Just needs a bit of practice and then sorted. Christ if we cannot navigate what next? Taking mobiles on races?

With some of the comments on navigation I am really not suprised that Edale have decided a mobile would be a good thing. Are you?

[Guick Dotto]

"I'm lost!" isn't necessarily that helpful a message to get over the phone. For instance Maria in Coronation Street (and I just can't believe SHE didn't have a mobile on her. What would she have said to the MR?
"Oh please won't somebody help us! Oh help!"
"Now just calm down love and tell us where you are."
"The Lake District... I think. Oh help help. It's so dark and high and oh no I've fallen in a beck..."
I rest my case.

[Chris]

Road running lost it's appeal for me over a period of many years due to all the nonsense including (but a great deal more than) goody bags and overcomplication.

I'm not a mountain person, I'd never seen a mountain until I ran the Borrowdale race.I'm not good with heights. Nevertheless I became obsessed with fell racing as peole who know me may appreciate.

I have often wanted to comment on the myth of 'blazers' in athletics which is the disparaging term we are supposed to use for the athletics establishment. If you want to see a bit of purity in sport go to a track and field evening at Stretford in the spring and summer and don't pretend fell running has any more of it.

Personally, there's other stuff I can do than run a fell race with a phone.

[Margarine]

Well I quite like shredded wheat but I prefer weetabix.