How long before a run would you take them to be effective during the run? I'm guessing 5 minutes before you set off will be too late..............
Anyone got any anti inflamatory tablet tales to tell/advice to offer?
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How long before a run would you take them to be effective during the run? I'm guessing 5 minutes before you set off will be too late..............
Anyone got any anti inflamatory tablet tales to tell/advice to offer?
They are usually slow working on me so I yake one the evening before, one in the morning and one before the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ady In Accy
Don't risk it though. If your not 100% forget the race and do as your body is telling you.
I will never run on tablets again:o
Being a beginner i get alot of aches and pains, mainly shin splints, but today i had ankle pain, so i took 2 ibrufen before i went to Heaton Park, and 2 when i came back, and although i am aware of my shins, they are not half as in the pain they are usually.
But i guess cos i am a beginner, i choose to take them to help me continue.
Maybe you should speak to your doctor about taking them?
I need the Ibups Ady - for cramp more than owt!
I take a couple before a long run - maybe 30 mins before and then carry some with me - I also carry the gel to administer direct.
But I tend not to use them away from the long runs. I'll have 2 before the PPP and probably take 3 (one at a time) in running.
Nuun tablets this year though so I'm hopin they will help.
WP what is the gel like to take? seen it in the chemist, but not tried it yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I had bad cramp in my side today, is that what the Nuun tablets are for?
The gel is anti-inflamatory/pain relief but take a while to be absorbed through the skin (so best applied sooner rather than later).Quote:
Originally Posted by NirvanaBliss
Nuun tablets help replace salts lost through sweat.
I agree with WP's advice.. although I would take an hour before to make sure there out of my stomach before I start running so to speak.
The thing with ibuprofen for me is that they are sometimes a bit hard on the stomach, so I take with or just after food. So if I'm taking before a run to stop / minimise pain kicking in i'll take an hour / hour and a half beforehand with half a slice of bread or some porridge if it's a long one.
if you're planning on using them for an upcoming race /event I would try them out with your training runs first to see how they work best for you.
...
Most people get cramp in their legs, is what you got not just a bad stitch?Quote:
Originally Posted by NirvanaBliss
If it is a stitch, think back to if you had anything to drink/eat within an hou8r or so before you set off. I have to be really strick with myself so that i dont ever touch an ounce of food or a sip or drink for 2 hours before i run or ill get a bad stitch.
I'll have to remember the try the Ibupro's for cramps, cheers for the idea WP
I wouldn't
not anymore
I've done it a couple of times - just ahead of setting off.
One time was on the Borrowdale - I crashed and burned at the top of Dale Head, it took me 1:44 - yes 1 hour and 44 minutes to reach the finish (i.e. 2 miles downhill)
Then last weekend on a long recce. At 4 hours I crashed, felt sick and weak for the next 2 hours.
never again.
As Stagger says, if you need them to allow you to run then really you shouldn't run.
I'd still take them after a run to minimise the inflammatory response that follows. Trouble with taking them after is it kinda puts beer off the menu (as they are bad for the stomach and you can end up pretty sick).
avoid them if you can
Ady,
I tend to use them on long runs, usually well into the run though, not before, but I am talking about events like the Fellsman, it defnitely helps when you are starting to flag just to relive the inflamed legs. I would be very careful though I finished my first Fellsman fine and didn't feel any pain, I had taken about three of the 400mg tablets over the last 20 miles or so. It was only the week later I started feeling pain when walking and driving (extension of my leg on the clutch pedal) that I went to the hospital and was told I had a stress fracture in my tibia.............................You have been warned;)
Ady, I ran the AW on a good dose of diclofenac to calm down my sciatic back problem. I wouldn't have been able to run it otherwise: as it was, I did a decent time!
I took 100mg the night before and 100mg with breakfast: with the race starting at 11.30 there was plenty of time to have a decent brek and let it all go down.
Diclofenac is harder on the stomach than ibuprofen so I need to take them with food and like most people I can't run within two hours of eating anything substantial, so that sort of dictates when I can take them.
I had not eaten at all since lunchtime, then it was only ham on brown with fruit salad, and lots of water, so not sure what it could have been, but the stitch was in my side or stomach, maybe breathing to hard LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fowler
Where do I start?Quote:
Originally Posted by NirvanaBliss
Stitch - it is often caused by food, but could be tiredness / stress. Try changing your breathing patterns - it can get rid. Most runners breath in rhythm with their feet eg. in on a right foot strike and out on the next right foot strike. Try changing to left foot or breath in a rhythm of 3 if you understand and the stitch can be got rid off, particulalry if food / drink induced.
Ibups - I only have experince of ibuprofen and use the normal 200mg strength sainsbury's brand.
My guts are rock solid - always have been - so I don;t tend to suffer whatever I take, but I am careful none the less.
Food 2 hours before running!!
So how do you approach the 3 peaks if you eat 2 hours before start and then you have to run 4 hours +??
You have to train yourself. When I was just a roadie doing 10Ks and under I adopted the 2 hour rule.
Now I can eat and have a coffee 15 minutes vefore a long run without any stitch issues.
Just train yourself to do it.
Cramps - I find that a quick application of ibup gel directly on to the cramping muscle can have an instant effect.
For a twisted ankle though - not so - it takes time to absorb.
Thank you Witton, i guess what did not help is i had the Ibru tablets with water on an empty stomach, and yesterday was quite a stressful day, so it could be down to that, has i don't normally get a stitch, have copy/paste what you written and will add to my notes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Thanks again! x:D
If you get stomach problems with Ibups, try Nurofen Lemon Meltets (orally to avoid any confusion), I use these and they seem to go straight into my cheeks thus bypassing my stomach completely! Not sure how this works. Expensive - but worth the cost. Also agree, coffee and cake for anything over half mara, immediately before, no problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind You
Thanks i went to asda this morning when it opened, and i bought some of the meltets, almost £3 for 12, but hopefully they work much faster.
Be careful about using non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs) such as Ibuprofen, Dicloflex, Diclofenac, Voltaren (/ol). They can cause acute renal failure in some people particularly in combination with dehydration. They can also cause epigastric/pancreatic pain. There have been deaths attributed to ibuprofen used by dehydrated runners in the Marathon des Sables and other ultras. One of my daughters ended up in hospital on a drip in February after such a reaction and it's not as rare a side effect as you might think.
I use a little Ibu gel after a long run sometimes to stop me cramping up when driving home, but I drink plenty with it and use it very cautiously now.
for localised pain in joints (in my case bunions / general malformed big toe joint) I can recommend voltarol cream as a topical treatment - better than ibuprof-gel in my opinion.
Thanks, i had been using them alittle too much, whats your reviews on tens machines?
Always take with food as well, it won't take many diclofenac without food to give you a stomach ulcerQuote:
Originally Posted by Tussockface
Finally some sense! Non steroidal anti inflammatory tablets (NSAIDs) such as Ibuprofen and diclofenac, are effective pain killers, as Tussockface says they can cause renal failure (I've seen a user end up on dialysis -forever -but it's rare) for the endurance athlete the combination of dehydration or low sodium (usually the result of overdrinking) and NSAIDs can be very serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussockface
Their effects on inflammation are debatable, they're probably bad for acute injury (they affect bleeding and chemicals called prostaglandins involved in the tissue damage). They are a good pain killer if that's your poison, otherwise, paracetamol is safer and in many studies only fractionally less effective than an NSAID. NSAIDs cause ulcers and gastritis, it's a prostaglandin effect, apparently you could inject them or use suppositories and still risk gastric effects, but you don't get much of the NSAID gels/creams into the bloodstream. Poor old paracetamol if they invented it again now, tarted it up and renamed it with a trendy moniker it would be a wonder drug!
There is increasingly good evidence showing cramp may have nothing to do with salt or hydration it's probably muscle fatigue related in race situations. Nor do humans have salt stores in their bodies as other threads have suggested.
Training effectively and hydrating carefully (note "carefully" overdrinking is out) may be a better solution than doping.
Sorry to rant but the quality of medical advice forumites are giving each other is shocking.
I am actually on my first ever course of AI’s (Diclofenic) as prescribed by my GP. I have an inflamed hip (not fully sure, Xray on Friday) and a bit of PF.
From Day 1 (last Sat) the pains have eased, although they tend to return as the next tablet is due.
The injury is obviously still there, and the pain is the body’s way of saying ‘slow down’. So I am not sure why people would want to run ‘normally’ whilst on the stuff.
As a truly addicted runner I can understand the need to run, and indeed after a fortnight off (even though I was swimming and cycling) I was suffering the classic signs of withdrawal symptoms and decided to partake in a slow easy 15 minute trot per day.
As someone with no medical training I have posted on here advising that I take Ibups and advising that I am careful ie. I don't take many, I use them in a long race - so perhaps 2 or 3 times a year - and hydrate as well.
I agree with all the cautionary notes.
I ran the PPP on ASaturday and started on paracetemol as a painkiller as I had a sore hip.
It worked a treat.
I have just found that Ibups and ibup gel help me cope with cramp. At least they seem to do.
[QUOTE
I have just found that Ibups and ibup gel help me cope with cramp. At least they seem to do.[/QUOTE]
Well you're probably right I don't doubt that they will, it cannot be disputed they are pretty good pain killers and cramp is pretty painful. I was off on a major rant :).
Mmm since getting the Meltets i could say i am quite addicted to them.
And since the shin splints i have got into having ibrufen and paracetamols together, but reading this...Problem is the shin splints is seriously painful!
That is an entirely conventional approach to stepping up analgesia from one or another of those meds, (all the comments above aside). But if you need that much stuff to run don't you need your injury sorting out? :eek:.Quote:
Originally Posted by NirvanaBliss
I think Updownupdown might be being a tad alarmist here about the terrible consequences of Ibupe and diclofenac. Saying they 'cause renal failure' and 'cause ulcers and gastritis' without massive qualifications is just misleading. Where's the empirical evidence to back all this up?
The vast majority of people who take these anti-inflamms have no side-effects whatsoever. Taken properly they pose virtually no problems to anyone. Most people aren't daft enough to take large amounts on empty stomachs and get dehydrated.
I wasn't aware that Ibupe can prevent cramp, but glad to hear it does.
I agree I'm somewhat alarmist, the risks are relatively low. Not sure I'd say it's actually misleading. There is good evidence, you are quite reasonably querying the incidence of harmful effects though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
For GI bleeding an NSAID user has about 4x the risk of a non user, however this is based on pooled studies it's dose and drug related, and if you're young and healthy its lower, if you're old and have bled previously it's masses higher, and that's still a low risk of course as a non users GI bleeding risk is only 1 per 1000 person years. Evidence since you ask: Association Between Nonsteroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs and Upper Gastrointestinal Tract Bleeding/Perforation
An Overview of Epidemiologic Studies Published in the 1990s Sonia Hernández-Díaz, MD, MPH; Luis Alberto García Rodríguez, MD, MSc
Arch Intern Med. 2000;160:2093-2099.
Renal issues; probably easiest to look at here if you really want:http://www.cks.library.nhs.uk/nsaids...nsider#-330673
And being pedantic they do not prevent cramp, they would be expected to reduce the pain of cramp as they are painkillers.
Actually I wish I'd never mentioned it,:)
Zoot, I'll take some of the flak here as Updown was supporting my original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootHornRollo
Perhaps it is alarmist, but then seeing your 18-year-old daughter on a drip with failed kidneys is pretty alarming.
It's true that use of NSAIDs is widespread and they can be fantastically effective without any apparent side effects. I once had back pain that left me on the floor thinking I was dying until one tab of Voltaren got me up and about in minutes. I'm sorry if anyone thought I was denigrating an entire class of incredibly useful drug.
But you suggest that bad reactions are a result of daftness, and that "taken properly they pose virtually no problems to anyone". Now, I realise that an anecdotal case is scant evidence, but my younger daughter certainly did nothing daft. She took a prescribed amount of Diclofenac and undertook an ordinary school day (she's doing her A2s). She was healthy and fit with no other medical condition and yet within 24 hours she was in hospital with acute renal failure. This completely baffled the specialists until they discovered that she'd had Diclofenac, and then they more or less said 'Of course, that explains it', as if it wasn't an irregular occurrence.
This set me off googling the key terms and possible links between NSAIDs and kidney problems began to emerge. Subsequently, a surprising number of friends and friends-of-friends have related similar tales.
So I'm not scaremongering, or saying that NSAIDs are terrible and inevitably damaging or dangerous. I'm just saying that it's wise to be aware that there can be problems and that you don't have to act in a daft way to be susceptible to them.
Tussockface, I genuinely didn't mean to be dismissive of what happened to your daughter, or to imply that she was daft.
I didn't go back to re-read all the previous posts in this thread properly when I came back to it, and had forgotten your experience with your daughter - I just remembered a general point being made (by Upanddown I thought!) about dehydrated ultra-athletes, and I was responding to that.
Even so, daft was the wrong word. I just meant that most people aren't taking them in such circumstances.
Didn't read thread properly, chose my words very badly and it came out totally wrong. Please accept my apologies.
Ade
Absolutely no offence taken, Zoot, so no need to apologise (but thanks anyway).
If only one person reads this thread and is just a little more careful with NSAIDs as a result, we'll have done a good job between us. ;):)
BTW, three months on, Eliza has made pretty much a full recovery. Ain't the human body a wonderful thing! :D
it was that recent!? god, well I'm really glad she's recovered well, must've been scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussockface
My doctor strongly advised against Ibup as I have asthma. Not badly and it's under control, but he suggested diclofenac was a better alternative for me.
Are you sure he didn't suggest paracetamol? There's little to choose between the two drugs above, diclofenac is slightly more powerful (ie if it were to upset your asthma it would be worse than ibuprofen), they are both "NSAIDs". Note I said "if" above, they don't always aggravate asthma unless the asthmatic has aspirin/NSAID sensitivity, best not be alarmist:).Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticsman