World Cross Country

[saz]

'The main limiting factor in endurance running is oxygen uptake, transportation and usage in muscles.'

Trouble with the above statment is that many physiologists would disagree, - and of course it totally depends on what you mean by endurance running - in fact it would be hard to find those who support the above statment as valid for distances of marathon length and above

[CL]

Thanks for the backhanded compliment Chris . This could go on for ever so I'll try at least one more time. Apart from chucking a load of stats about EPO and haemoglobin can you provide just one single shred of evidence that Bekele and Gebreselassie (and all the other magnificent Ethiopians/Kenyans etc) are drug cheats and not genetically pre-disposed, highly motivated, brilliantly trained and physically supreme athletes.

Your in deep trouble here Crowhill. My answer is the same evidence that makes you conclude that Flo-Jo cheated!

[CL]

As a matter of fact you DON'T know that salbutamol has enhanced her performance.

PR has admitted to taking salbutamol for sports induced asthma and this drug has a small capability to enhance performances. This does not allow you to conclude that PR's performances have been enhanced by taking Salbutamol. You would need to carry out a series of experiments and controls measuring PRs performances before and after she takes salbutamol.

Similarly your statement that recent world records may have been improved with assistance from PEDs is equally incorrect. You cannot prove that any world record holder has taken PEDs to break the previous record.

This does not reject the alternate argument that PEDs are not being used in the sport but, for as long as PEDs are illegal, the only proofs would be by detection or admission.

I have to agree with you.

Having reread your thread about Drug Taking In Sport I tend to believe the arguments put by people like Wheeze or Chris and the pragmatism of daz H rather than the pseudo-science that you tend to use to justify your statements.

The basis for many of your arguments is that because world records are being broken and because PEDs exist and are known to be used by certain athletes, you imply that world records are being broken by athletes who take drugs. An impossible conclusion that defies logic!

It is this type of rumour and speculation that are causing too many problems with the sport of athletics.

Super implies above, over or beyond.So in the context of super fast running, drugs are implied.

[CL]

'The main limiting factor in endurance running is oxygen uptake, transportation and usage in muscles.'

Trouble with the above statment is that many physiologists would disagree, - and of course it totally depends on what you mean by endurance running - in fact it would be hard to find those who support the above statment as valid for distances of marathon length and above

Hello Saz. Physiologists opinions don't change the facts.The facts are as you run faster, you require more fuel.To burn a greater quantity of fuel requires more oxygen.This cannot be disputed.

Increasing a marathon runners oxygen uptake from 5.7litres a minute, to 6.5litres means he can run faster aerobically.This is significant because aerobic respiration is approx 19times more economical than anaerobic respiration.

Regards

[Guick Dotto]

Salbutamol: do we know how often Paula takes it or whether she took it on the occasions of her championship performances? I only take it when I'm short of breath and that's usually a response to environmental factors. I carry it, but 9 times out of 10 don't use it on a run. CL this is a real person's reputation you are traducing and even if salbutamol does boost performance significantly maybe Paula simply wasn't using it then. I can't remember reading anywhere the precise details of her prescribed medication usage.

[dominion]

Your in deep trouble here Crowhill. My answer is the same evidence that makes you conclude that Flo-Jo cheated!

Well she competed in the '84 Olympics and everyone knows that the samples taken there were all 'accidentally contaminated and then destroyed' without being tested.....

You stated,

Freddie I always advise competitive runners, not to do any upper body work. This is because it won't help them run any faster, and may slow them down, due to the extra weight of heavier muscles.Although saying that most distance runners couldn't build muscles to save their lives.They run to many miles, which drains their 'growth energy.' This is not a criticism of runners.It's just the nature of our sport.

Yet two of, if not, the two greatest distance runners in this country have both advocated upper body work.

[XRunner]

Super implies above, over or beyond.So in the context of super fast running, drugs are implied.

Drugs are only implied by those who do not know any better and cannot accept that people can achieve world class standards using legal methods.

There is no corrrelation between the breaking of world athletic records and the use of performance enhancing drugs. If there is any hard evidence that a world athletic record has been broken illegally then the IAAF would not approve it.

Making unfounded allegations that drugs are implied because records are now 'super fast' shows your lack of knowledge of the sport and indicates that your real desire is to bring the sport into disrepute.

[saz]

Sorry Chris I do not know where you get your 'facts' from, but once you get to marathon length endurance events many other factors become significant.

I agree that for circa 10 kmto half marathon events then ability to take up oxygen and use it is critically important, but once you get to distances above that then this is not the case - here other fatigue mechanisms plus ability to take in and use substrates etc are critical

But with your background you would know that or another blind spot?

[CL]

Salbutamol: do we know how often Paula takes it or whether she took it on the occasions of her championship performances? I only take it when I'm short of breath and that's usually a response to environmental factors. I carry it, but 9 times out of 10 don't use it on a run. CL this is a real person's reputation you are traducing and even if salbutamol does boost performance significantly maybe Paula simply wasn't using it then. I can't remember reading anywhere the precise details of her prescribed medication usage.

Guick I heard someone in the know say that she does indeed take her medication before events.Paula competes within the rules in this respect.However I think the rules are wrong, particulary at world level.

[CL]

[QUOTE=dominion;120155]Well she competed in the '84 Olympics and everyone knows that the samples taken there were all 'accidentally contaminated and then destroyed' without being tested.....[quote]

I agree with you Dom.I accept evidence!

The point is Crowhill was questioning my position(namely that I haven't witnessed Gab sticking a syringe in his arm), but he took the same position in regard to Flo-Jo.

Remember she never tested positive.