Bolts on Broad Stand

[RichT]

On a slightly different tack, if you arrive at Broad Stand and find something man made hanging down, don't start pulling yourself up on it. You don't know who fixed it, whether they knew what they were doing, whether it's been tampered with or damaged by rockfall, whether it's been abandoned because it got stuck, etc.

Getting to the top of the corner with all your weight on it just as it gives way would be far nastier than slipping off while trying to climb the corner.

[Marvin]

I'll go for Foxes Tarn on my next BG. Far safer and quicker than faffing on Broad Stand!

[Marvin]

After all, there was an awful lot of faffing (mostly on my part) last time

[Marvin]

Thanks RichT for you patience in getting me up.

[RichT]

I'll go for Foxes Tarn on my next BG. Far safer and quicker than faffing on Broad Stand!

Marvin

I think that's a very wise decision! I was happy to spend all day helping you get up safely but unfortunately you had somewhere else to be.

You did convince me that Broad Stand isn't the best route for everyone. As a climber, that was quite a suprise. Thank you for the enlightenment. See you on Saturday for another big day

[Man from Del Monte]

quite a big article on this subject in the latest Trail magazine

[FellMonster]

I'll go for Foxes Tarn on my next BG. Far safer and quicker than faffing on Broad Stand!

Why on earth would you seek to do it again Andy?

Some more helpful and sympathetic posts, which is good.

The history and tradition of the BG is important, certainly to the vast majority of those who chose to become involved in it.

Bob Graham didn't use bolts; neither did Alan Heaton.

They have set a standard of moral and ethical behaviour in connection with the passage of this obstacle that all future contenders, in my opinion, should at least adhere to.

It it frightens you or you cannot protect the corner in an ethically acceptable and responsible manner (which in my book means includes removing your gear after you have passed by), go by another route.

Did Bob Graham ever state that he didn't use ropes out of ethical or moral concerns? A genuine question because I don't know. If he didn't state any ethical or moral concerns then perhaps he simply didn't use a rope because (for example)
A) He was a competent climber
B) He and or his helpers couldn't be arsed taking the gear with them or pre-rigging it

Come to think of it, did he intend for his "round" to become a hallowed running challenge? Perhaps he did. perhaps he didn't. I'm not decrying the achievement or questioning it's authenticity...I am however questioning the use of terms such as "moral" and "ethical" in connections with the concerns about the evolution of the event....so maybe he didn't use ropes and put Bolts on broad stand but then he was a walker, not a runner and did his round in tennis shoes, long shorts, and a pyjama jacket..........

The point I am making is that the event has evolved, and u must either accept that or you don't......it seems wrong to accept bits of the evolution and hint that others are "immoral" or "unethical". Because, if you follow such criteria then you must therefore consider the ethical issue of attracting a large number of people from all over the UK to trapse all over the fells creating mass erosion during the summer months in particular........after all erosion's a naturally occuring event

[skennaugh]

Round and round. Manx rock is delicate. most of this years good holds will have to be found next year. I don't like polished rock ( look at Malham ). Bolts have the're place, just not on my favourite climbs. Look at Ilkley ( Cow and Calf ), Some of that graffiti is quite old, mistakes last. As for chipping holds.... well. If you can't climb it, go to the wall and get fit. Trad is good.

[Mark G]

I dont think its just about bolts on the BG and whether or not this is a reasonable evolution of the round - as someone has pointed out we could all be trying it in plimsolls and pyjamas but bolting something like Broad Stand affects the wider mountain community and is the thin end of a wedge that might eventually lead to it becoming a via ferrata. Now I'm not seriously suggesting that might happen but some people might think it would be a good idea (remember the calls for railings around Dungeon Ghyll after someone fell in and sadly died?). Speaking as an ex and never very good climber I cant understand the need to bolt it anyway - there is an alternative way round, it can be more than adequately protected by traditional means and it can even be soloed if you wish, so why drill holes in the rock?

[IainR]

Did Bob Graham ever state that he didn't use ropes out of ethical or moral concerns? A genuine question because I don't know.

I don't think there is anything that wrong with using ropes, as long as you are just using it for security, not pulling up on the rope, being pulled up on the rope, using a ladder, creating steps in the rope etc..

I think then you are simplifying the route. 'Leave only footprints, take only pictures..', I think its a good saying to use for the round. The 'ethics' of the round are defined by British mountain traditions as much as Bob Graham or the BG club. In the UK, generally, we don't bolt mountain crags, we dont have via ferrata.

The argument of what is acceptable can go on forever, I'm not a huge fan of marking routes with cairns but especially the use of any paint, even if it's biodegradable. It just trivilises the route. Navigation, route knowledge is part of the challenge.