Poor post on my part. Linked to CLs post but driven by conversations with a Scot Conservative. He’d see all employee benefits and protections removed and pay cut in order to make exports more competitive with no regard to maintaining quality of life.I don't know where you get this workforce exploitation from.
I’ve no idea where on that de -regulation scale CL sits but I don’t imagine it’s anywhere near that and reading back I should have clarified where the post came from.
😂Originally Posted by Llani Boy
I’d argue that only Brexiteers are banned from using GPS (insert link to Brexit click bait story here)
Remainers can just rely on existing agreements !
Anyway, the way things are going it needs to be a series format and not a single race.
On TM we can agree at least. She does look like she’s stitching leave up.
I don’t recall her repeating endlessly the line “Brexit means BINO”
It’s not the number you get paid that counts. It’s the comfort it affords that matters.If you are a part-time worker on 25 hours and £8 and hour, you get 50p an hour, whoopee do - an increase of max £12.
But if you get 10 extra hours.....
Mind you, I think we’d all be better off if we could sort productivity out. And that does need a carrot or two. I’ve seen some unreal levels of pish productivity in different sectors. Although my previous contract logistics employers seem to be resolving this by removing people from the equation with increasingly automated workplaces. Big investment, but then people aren’t cheap either.
Current sector is a weird one. You’ve a highly motivated workforce but the amount of talking about getting things done that takes place compared to things actually getting done is all sorts of unproductive.
If there was genuine innovation going on I could understand it. But nearly everything that happens is tried and tested, even if it’s new the big sector players have done the groundwork first.
At the moment we have 100s of 1000s making 5-6 trips to work a week for 20-30 hours of work. Many of them rely on in-work benefits to top them up.
Is it any wonder productivity is going nowhere?
I've highlighted why employers would try and cap total weekly hours of the lower paid, to reduce the NI bill.
But there are also other reasons which stem from "workers rights".
If you work at Aldi (sorry not picking on them but I do know how they work and they are typical) they contractually allow you a paid 1/2 hour break in a 8 hour shift.
If you work a 4 hour shift it's 15 minutes unpaid. A 6 hour shift is 20 minutes unpaid.
So consider 2 scenarios.
Pay someone £8 ph for an 5 x 8 hour shifts the average cost of labour per hour is £9.11 based on Gross pay, employers NI and 37.5 hours actual work.
Pay 2 people £8 ph for 4 x 5 hour shifts the average cost of labour per hour is £8.00 per hour.
So it's 14% more for the employer to hire a full time worker and give them 8 hour shifts.
Now look at it from the employees point of view.
Instead of 5 trips to and from work, there are 8 trips with the additional costs that those trips incur.
If we then consider from the "comfort it affords" the employee, they spend almost as much time getting ready for work, travelling there and then back as they do actually working.
So if you consider the travelling time, they really do get clobbered.
When I look back, when I joined the workplace in 1983 I was in a shoe factory, a non union factory.
We worked 8:00-15:15, 8:00-13.00 on Friday. 30 minute lunch was unpaid, but 40 minutes of interim breaks a day were paid (25 on Friday) with a 5 or 10 minute break every hour.
4 weeks paid holiday + banks.
Pension Scheme.
T + 1/4 for overtime Monday-Friday.
T + 1/2 for overtime Saturday.
T x 2 for overtime Sunday and Bank Holidays.
That was 1983, no social charter, no minimum wage and no forced weekend or anti-social hours working.
So when I hear claims that being in the EU has helped workers rights, I'm sorry, but the equivalent worker now gets nothing like what they got back 35 years ago in practically all aspects.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
Very interesting buy why is it in this thread? With the decreasing influence of trade unions, employers can use more clever methods to reduce employee costs. What has that to do with the EU, would this have not happened if the UK was not in the EU? Will workers rights improve once the UK leaves?
People seem to want it both ways, they say they want to leave in order to "take back control". But as you have very clearly shown the UK allready has all the power it requires to abuse it's workforce.
Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 03-12-2018 at 11:24 AM.
It's in this thread because of the introduction of topic of deregulation to the thread.
Corbyn has protection of workers rights as one of his Brexit tests.
But the EU does jack-s**t for workers rights.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
But that is the contradiction, many people voted Brexit to "take back control" but here you are saying the EU does nothing for workers rights. Would you be happy or sad if the EU brought in laws that stops the abuses that was outlined above?
No, because this should be done by the national Govt and the EU should have been little more than a free trade association.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
Ok I re-ask my question. The EU does nothing for workers rights, and it should not do anyting for workers rights, so on that one issue you agree the EU has it right, so why the long post about workers rights?
As far as Jeremy Corbyn is concerned, he is a Brexiteer, who is putting in impossible conditons to give him an excuse to support leave.
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