Brexit

[noel]

Example: We do not have a public transport system any more, we have a private transport system who's primary objective is shareholder profits, not about getting people inexpensively and safely from a to b. I personally think the public transport system should be free at point of use and paid for by personal transport taxation (I might've to hide under a chair for this one! ).

Tony Benn used to advocate for this. And not when he was in front-line politics. I think that gives an idea of how un-mainstream this view is.

I think some degree of subsidisation to transport can be argued for - especially for remote communities like the Western Isles.

[anthonykay]

Tony Benn used to advocate for this. And not when he was in front-line politics. I think that gives an idea of how un-mainstream this view is.

I think some degree of subsidisation to transport can be argued for - especially for remote communities like the Western Isles.

It is being tried: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...transport-free

[Wheeze]

You know, I think the EU negotiators are missing a trick. They desperately do not want UK to leave and so have made the conditions for leaving impossible to accept. This impasse could be avoided if, instead, they took a stance of negotiating an offer to remain. There is precedent for this. The European Council responded to a Danish referendum result of 50.7% rejecting the Treaty of Maastricht by offering 4 placatory exceptions resulting in a 56.7% acceptance at a second referendum (note the amazing similarity of the split to our own referendum). What if, now, EU said "We totally accept your vote to leave but if you stay, you will get X,Y and Z"? Instead of this bull headed intransigence to the Withdrawal agreement.

[noel]

This is the withdrawal agreement that the EU negotiated with the UK, taking into account the red lines of the UK's leader. So it's not "they" it's "we" who have made the conditions.

To me it sounds more like lack of agreement on our side than intransigence on theirs. They might be thinking: we did all we can but the UK clearly want to leave whatever.

[Witton Park]

Tony Benn used to advocate for this. And not when he was in front-line politics. I think that gives an idea of how un-mainstream this view is.

I think some degree of subsidisation to transport can be argued for - especially for remote communities like the Western Isles.

I actually personally believe that public transport is a mess.

If a Government wants to encourage us out of cars, on to PT then it surely needs to be in more control of the services.
I've often had cheaper options to fly to London than train. That has to be wrong.

But I know a train driver and a bus worker and they both warn me against it. So I am a little torn, hence my suggestion on rail is to take the next 2-3 franchises back in to public ownership and see how they compare.

By the way, I think the Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland have subsidies. I work with a few up there and some have told me they get cheaper ferry crossings and flights out and back.

[Witton Park]

This is the withdrawal agreement that the EU negotiated with the UK, taking into account the red lines of the UK's leader. So it's not "they" it's "we" who have made the conditions.

To me it sounds more like lack of agreement on our side than intransigence on theirs. They might be thinking: we did all we can but the UK clearly want to leave whatever.

Consider that earlier this year the only vote for a positive arrangement to leave was the so-called Brady amendment.
It was never put to the EU.

Consider that back in 2018, Tusk offered a comprehensive FTA similar to Canada and Mrs May came up with Chequers which had the Facilitated Customs Arrangement.
It was a complete dog's breakfast and would have been impossible.

So I agree our Govt was more complicit in where we are now.

Mrs May should never have agreed to the 2017 December protocol. It fist introduced the idea of NI being treated different and was then flatly rejected by the DUP.

[Wheeze]

Noel, both sides had their red lines. The impasse comes from both sides locked in a manner from which there is no escape. Sometimes, to unlock something one competitor needs to make an unexpected move or change of pressure. BJ is clearly trying this with the end game of ensuring leave. What if EU tried a similar tactic with the endgame of Stay?

[DangerMouse]

If you aren't VAT registered I think that is your biggest issue. I think you need to look in to it urgently along with registering for an EORI or you might not be able to import or export.

Oh thank you, this is really useful, I had no idea about the EORI stuff.

This does kinda highlight my concerns though. I will try and explain, bear with me...

I am sure that most proper businesses have the resources, capital, staff time, knowledge and skills to do these things and take them all in their stride. My position is that this part of my working life is more like a mini cottage industry or a side line. It's just me, I don't earn very much from doing it. It's perhaps helpful to think of it more as a hobby and only really works because of the minimal requirements (as they stand now) for me to operate on a European basis. For me, going VAT registered means more work that I neither know how to do or particularly want to do and I wouldn't just have to do it, I would need learn how to do it first.

I can't really separate this out from the rest of my work either, unless I go down the Limited Company route and set up separate companies for each of the pats of my working life perhaps. Relationships I have with long standing customers would also have to change. Typically being VAT registered for web development work at the amount I do annually doesn't really make sense as the running costs are so low. That is, it's not really based on inputs and outputs where VAT paid kinda balances out with VAT charged, I literally just need a computer and an internet connection, the customer pays for the third party services like hosting, domain names, software etc. and they just pay me for my time.

I hope I am making some kind of sense and I don't sound negative or resistant to change, I am actually very open to it where it makes sense; you should see what I have had to do over the last year or so to comply with GDPR - it was a ton of work I didn't get paid for, months spent sorting stuff out; but it feels really good to be on the other side of it and to be able to say to my customers that I comply to a very high degree and that will continue indefinitely now with very little effort. Lots of work upfront, but really rewarding and empowering in the long term.

That's not to say I won't go VAT registered, just that it's not that simple or easily achievable - for me - I need to be super careful I don't make a rod for my own back and turn something fundamentally enjoyable and relaxing, that I do to earn a little extra cash when not working on web programming projects, into a big headache where I spend more time accounting and complying with regulation than doing the thing I love.

More generally, I wonder how many other micro/cottage industries will face similar issues? I think the world is a richer place for this creative diversity, I believe individuals and small groups who work like this should be encouraged and supported at every level, there should be policies in place to help people do this kind of thing rather than commuting miles to some crap job every day.

I believe one of the main attractions of Hebden Bridge is that it is full of independent shops selling locally made products, people like it because the town centre does not look like the predominant facsimile town centres in the country. Care should be taken not to legislate these small businesses out of the market, well, unless you actually want exactly the same shops in every town centre - then you're good

I really appreciate you taking the time to read my posts and for your input - it is helpful and I thank you

It is being tried: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...transport-free

Wow!! I didn't know about this and it is absolutely fantastic to read this article - seriously - you just made my day - year even!! Thank you for sharing, I am so happy to read this. Amazing that 75% of people voted for it and other countries going the same way too - this is the future - I hope

What a fantastic way to liberate your people, what better way to help create a happy workforce that can get to work on time? What a brilliant way to fight the insane levels of fossil fuel transport pollution. And all the aggressive, militant, bullying, restrictive side of public transport is taken away or significantly reduced; less ticket inspections, barriers, fines, ticket police, prosecutions, etc. the train staff can stop being revenue collectors and get back to concentrating on an actual job that involves things like helping transport users to plan their routes, manage their luggage safely, making sure the transport is used safely and you know - even run on time, heck, even just passing the time of day and being nice to people - because why not?

I have to say despite everything many public transport employees still do this important part of their jobs with a smile and full credit to them, but a lot don't and are utterly miserable encounters.

There is hope!!

[DangerMouse]

Heh, someone I sent that article about the free transport to pointed out the second section of the article which I missed - apparently people stopped walking places and started using the transport system instead - doh!

Obviously this is only an impression too, who's to say that because of the time saved the same people didn't go swimming instead of having to walk somewhere for example i.e. still got plenty of exercise.

Undoubtably there will always be some kind of failure, nothing is perfect, but this did make me laugh at the unforeseen consequences!

I would like to think that just because the transport system was free that I wouldn't stop walking or cycling to places but I guess it depends on the mindset of each individual.

[Witton Park]

Heh, someone I sent that article about the free transport to pointed out the second section of the article which I missed - apparently people stopped walking places and started using the transport system instead - doh!

Obviously this is only an impression too, who's to say that because of the time saved the same people didn't go swimming instead of having to walk somewhere for example i.e. still got plenty of exercise.

Undoubtably there will always be some kind of failure, nothing is perfect, but this did make me laugh at the unforeseen consequences!

I would like to think that just because the transport system was free that I wouldn't stop walking or cycling to places but I guess it depends on the mindset of each individual.

If local public transport here in Blackburn was free, which is bus based, I still wouldn't use it. It isn't much cop whatever the price as the busses tend to go places I don't want to go.

I might use the local train service. I have regular trips to Burnley and I have Cheery Tree station 2-3 minutes walk away.
But even then, my wife has gone to Burnley to watch the football on a weeknight on the train, returned to Burnley Central after the match to find no trains - they've been cancelled, and I had to go and pick her up.

The quality of the service, frequency, reliability and the destination options are more important than free, as long as the price is affordable.

Anyway, this is a Brexit thread, so if this is up for further discussion, perhaps open a public transport thread.